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#1 EalaDubhSidhe

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 07:32 PM

There was a heavily-referenced topic on the old VP forums by Plumb, which dealt with the correct dimensions in inches for playfields by different manufacturers in different eras, and their correct translation into width/height units for VP8. Does anyone have all the details saved, or could repost them here? I particularly want to know the correct dimensions for modern Sterns, and how much longer they are than playfields from the DMD period used to be.

(NB: VP8, rather than VP9, since the ball size is slightly different on each. Though it wouldn't hurt for newer developers to have the measurements on hand for both.)

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#2 Noah Fentz

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 07:41 PM

QUOTE (Originally by Plumb)
I did a little experiment, made a table 1000 units wide, had a ball roll to the flat bottom, copied to photoshop, and duplicated the balls from edge to edge along the bottom, and I came up with, based on the known fact that pinballs are 1 1/16" in diameter...

1000 VP units = 21.25" or 539.75 mm

therefore...

1 vp unit = .53975 mm

47 VP units = 1 inch

therefore...

Early Bally Wide body table playfield i.e. future spa is....

1167.2 VP Units Wide x 1908.3 VP units long.

Of coarse I could be wrong.

=========================================================
EMs

Bally 70s EM - standard = 20.25" x 41.00" = 952 x 1927 vpus = 506 x 1024 bestpic size
G 70s EM - standard = 20.25" x 41.00" = 952 x 1927 vpus = 506 x 1024 bestpic size


Early SSs

*G System 1 - standard = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus = 494 x 1024 bestpic size
Early SS Stern - widebody = 23.875" x 45.00" = 1122 x 2115 vpus = 543 x 1024 bestpic size
Zaccaria - standard SS - 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus = 494 x 1024 bestpic size
*Pre WMS Bally - standard = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus = 494 x 1024 bestpic size
*Pre WMS Bally - widebody = 26.75" x 40.50" = 1257 x 1904 vpus = 676 x 1024 bestpic size
*WMS System 1-11 - standard = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus = 494 x 1024 bestpic size
WMS System 1-11 - widebody = 27.00" x 42.00" = 1269 x 1974 vpus = 658 x 1024 bestpic size
*Atari - widebody = 27.00" x 45.00" = 1269 x 2115 vpus = 614 x 1024 bestpic size
*G System 80 - standard = 23.75" x 46.50" = 1116 x 2186 vpus = 524 x 1024 bestpic size
*G System 80 - widebody = 26.75" x 46.50" = 1258 x 2186 vpus = 590 x 1024 bestpic size


Modern SSs

Capcom tables = 20.25" x 46.00" = 952 x 2162 vpus = 451 x 1024 bestpic size
*Data East - standard = 20.25" x 46.00" = 952 x 2162 vpus = 451 x 1024 bestpic size
Data East - widebody = 25.00" x 51.75" = 1175 x 2432 vpus = 494 x 1024 bestpic size
*Safecracker = 16.50" x 41.50" = 776 x 1950 vpus = 408 x 1024 bestpic size
*WPC (through 1987) - standard = 20.50" x 42.00" = 964 x 1974 vpus = 500 x 1024 bestpic size
*WPC (1987 on) - standard = 20.50" x 46.00" = 964 x 2162 vpus = 457 x 1024 bestpic size
**Apparently at least one of these is not like the others.. I measured the Drac PF and it was/is 20.25" x 45.00" = 952 x 2115 vpus = 461 x 1024 bestpic size
*WPC - superpin = 23.25" x 46.00" = 1093 x 2162 vpus = 518 x 1024 bestpic size
*Pin2K tables = 20.50" x 43.00" = 964 x 2021 vpus = 488 x 1024 bestpic size

---------------------------------------------
From WMS site

"Williams' standard playfield length increased from 42" to 46" in 1988"
===========================================================

just remember the ball=50 units=1.0625"=.54054mm and most any dimension should come out fine

===========================================================

Williams Varkon (1982)
24" across x 21" deep!
(Yes, it is wider than it is long. Plays like a cocktail table.)

===========================================================

According to the press info and documentation, the Hercules playfield took up 18 square feet, or 36 by 72 inches.

Actual cabinet size was 39" by 93", and 83" tall.

===========================================================

A few examples from Plumb's size conversion sheet:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Pre WMS Standard Size Bally: 952 x 1974
Standard Williams through 1987: 964 x 1974
Standard Williams after 1987: 964 x 2162
Super Wide WPC: 1093 x 2162

===========================================================



I checked the difference on VP9 and it's negligible. These dimensions should be fine for both programs.

The main difference between VP8 and VP9 is the physical size, not the apparent, visual size.

That's why there's no ball through the flipper in VP9 and some VP8 ramps are too small.

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#3 EalaDubhSidhe

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 05:11 AM

Hrm, everything is there *except* the modern Stern. I was certain the topic had it there somewhere...

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#4 TAB

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 05:17 AM

Thanks Noah - much helpful smile.gif

#5 Popotte

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 10:15 AM

More...

----------------------------------------------------
Individual Games
----------------------------------------------------
**There can always be exceptions to the above with certain unique tables, some of them are...

Black Knight 2000 (1989) : 515mm x 1067mm (WMS Sys11b)
Bride of Pinbot (1991) : 514mm x 1150mm (WPC) ~[20.25" x 45.25"]
BSD Dracula (1993) : 20.25" x 45.00" [514mm x 1143mm] (WPC)
Doctor Who (1992) : 20.25" x 45.0625" [514mm x 1145mm](WPC)
Future Spa (1979) : 680 mm x 1030 mm (Bally [Pre WMS] Wide Body)
Guns 'N Roses (1994) : 25" x 51.75" [635mm x 1314mm] (DE wide body)
Hercules (1979) : 36" x 72" [914mm x 1829mm] (Atari) (cabinet size: 39" x 93", and 83" tall) [991mm x 2362mm x 2108]
Safecracker (1996) : 16.50" x 41.50" [419mm x 1054mm] (WPC 95) - probably more like 18.35" x 41.50" [466mm x 1054mm] - not verified though.
Varkon (1982) : 24" x 21" [610mm x 533mm] (WMS) (Yes, it is wider than it is long. Plays like a cocktail table.)
World Cup Soccer (1994) : 515mm x 1163mm (Williams WPC-S)
(The "wall" at the back of the playfield with the stadion lights graphics is 515mm x 172mm, and has slightly rounded top corners.)


----------------------------------------------------
Other information
----------------------------------------------------
From WMS site: "Williams' standard playfield length increased from 42" to 46" in 1988"
High Speed (1985): 42" Long [1067mm]
T2 (1991): 46" Long [1168mm]
RFM (1999): 43" Long [1092mm]

Les cons ça ose tout. C'est même à ça qu'on les reconnaît.

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#6 rob046

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 08:45 PM

No measurement for Gottlieb system 3 games? I just noticed this. & I wonder if the measurements are different from early system 3 to later system 3 with dmd's.

#7 Plumb

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 08:16 PM

QUOTE (rob046 @ Jun 17 2011, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No measurement for Gottlieb system 3 games? I just noticed this. & I wonder if the measurements are different from early system 3 to later system 3 with dmd's.


My reference had System 3 in one of the later revisions but, of course, I didn't keep my version on my home computer and never expected the old VPF to vanish so....

Gottlieb System 3 = 20.25" x 46.00" = 952 x 2162 vpus = 451 x 1024 bestpic size


It looks like I need to update and rerelease this reference. Is there any chance that someone grabbed a copy of one of the last versions that I posted before the old VPFs demise and could send it to me?

#8 CaptainNeo

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 03:31 AM

just look at the Super mario playfield we did, it's scanned in full size. see what the dimensions are.


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#9 rob046

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:12 PM

QUOTE (CaptainNeo @ Sep 2 2012, 11:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
just look at the Super mario playfield we did, it's scanned in full size. see what the dimensions are.


I don't see a Super Mario PF scan anywhere. But the Stargate scan, assuming it is indeed 46" tall, it does equal the width of what Plumb says at 20.25" (20.253" to be exact). Wonder why Data East, Gottlieb, & probably Sega all went 1/4" less width on the PF? At that rate why not just make all sizes totally standard for all manufacturers, sans widebody efforts of course.

Edited by rob046, 03 September 2012 - 08:19 PM.


#10 CaptainNeo

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:30 PM

we didn't upload SMB yet? I'll have to look.


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#11 Plumb

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:57 PM

QUOTE (rob046 @ Sep 3 2012, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't see a Super Mario PF scan anywhere. But the Stargate scan, assuming it is indeed 46" tall, it does equal the width of what Plumb says at 20.25" (20.253" to be exact). Wonder why Data East, Gottlieb, & probably Sega all went 1/4" less width on the PF? At that rate why not just make all sizes totally standard for all manufacturers, sans widebody efforts of course.


It isn't 20.253 to be exact, it is 20.25". At 75DPI you cannot create a reduced size image that scales up to 20.25" because 20.25 x 75 = 1518.75 pixels. You are simply seeing rounding error.

I own a Stargate pin, along with over a dozen other pins, and I measured my Stargate playfield. The playfield is 46 inches long. This really wasn't necessary as the scan was stitched just fine and is the same length and width. I never stretch or compress axises on stitches, only straighten, crop, clean, and resize equal percentages for height and width. The ratios you see in our scans are the real life ratios found on the actual playfields.

One thing that seems to be coming back to me on my original thread in the old VPF was that items prefixed with an asterisk by them were items that I was able to personally measure and verify (or change if necessary). I'm still torqued at myself that I didn't keep a copy locally.

Modern Stern playfields are 20.25" x 45" as the 075DPI scans we have already uploaded match. I even measured my NOS TSPP playfield just moments ago and it matches precisely, as I was expecting it to.

#12 rob046

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:05 PM

QUOTE (Plumb @ Sep 2 2012, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (rob046 @ Jun 17 2011, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No measurement for Gottlieb system 3 games? I just noticed this. & I wonder if the measurements are different from early system 3 to later system 3 with dmd's.


My reference had System 3 in one of the later revisions but, of course, I didn't keep my version on my home computer and never expected the old VPF to vanish so....

Gottlieb System 3 = 20.25" x 46.00" = 952 x 2162 vpus = 451 x 1024 bestpic size


It looks like I need to update and rerelease this reference. Is there any chance that someone grabbed a copy of one of the last versions that I posted before the old VPFs demise and could send it to me?


Thanks. I think we are almost all set minus whatever oddball sizes might be out there. & I noticed the VP recent list I had didn't have those in it. So I took an FP list I had & updated it. I added & updated some other things too. Added System 3, somewhat confirmed system 80 standard, added Alvin G (which is a likely but unverified guess) & Stern thanks to what you just said! & I'm glad you did cuz I was thinking Stern still used 46" & just had a half inch more width. Isn't that strange that Stern actually shrunk their PF from the WMS/BLY standard? Anyhow, thanks for this. Interestingly, new Sterns have the same size of BS Dracula according to your chart, so there must be something about that size that WMS liked way back then too?

With System 80 Standard, thanks to your scan aspect ratio's being correct, I feel like it is safe to assume 42" is the right height here, which gives the measurement we need. Even as new as Bone Busters, it turns out all those just have the same size as the old System 1's, surprisingly. Would be great to get height confirmation though on a small system 80 (standard).
Also, I'm wondering if either of those Safecracker sizes are correct. They have the length being almost that of an early SS full sized pin, but I just played a Safecracker & its pretty damn small. I left the measurement in there though since I don't have any better info.

So I have to assume that Gottlieb made the switch to 46" as soon as they released the 1st system 3? Yes?? So... while WMS went to 46" in '88, it seems like Gottlieb did it a year or so later with the system 3's?
JUST 1 MORE MAJOR MEASUREMENT LEFT TO GET & A COUPLE MORE I'D LIKE TO VERIFY BUT SHOULD BE GOOD, & MAYBE NEO CAN HELP WITH THIS CUZ I THINK HE HAS ONE OF THESE...
Sega

We just need SEGA measurment, though I bet it is safe to assume it is the same as DE or GTB sys 3.
Also, I'm with Plumb in that I'm just not 100% sure on that Data East widebody measurement. 51+ inches tall? What I'm getting, if we assume length is 46", is about 23.7" wide (half inch more than the superpins). However, I hate to go against the existing measurement because it could very well be correct. Also the current 25" width seems a bit much, as I found GnR to play more like a Bally/WMS Superpin which is almost 2 inches less.
I did recently play a couple DE widebody's but they definitely didn't stick out to me as being longer & didn't seem to stick out more more compared to the pins next to it (if at all). & so it would be great if anyobdy with a Batman Forever, Guns n Roses, or WWF Royal Rumble (any others?) could help us confirm or change this.

Edited by rob046, 03 September 2012 - 10:16 PM.


#13 rob046

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:18 PM

Here is the new updated version of Plumb's table size chart...
EDIT: I just corrected the new Alvin G size, it is 42" long, not 46". Added Mystery Castle as an apparent exception. Game Plan & standard classic Stern now confirmed thanks to Plumb.

(last updated Sept 2012)
I did a little experiment, made a table 1000 units wide, had a ball roll to the flat bottom, copied to photoshop, and duplicated the balls from edge to edge along the bottom, and I came up with, based on the known fact that pinballs are 1 1/16" in diameter...

1000 VP units = 21.25" or 539.75 mm

therefore...

1 vp unit = .53975 mm

47 VP units = 1 inch

therefore...

Early Bally Wide body table playfield i.e. future spa is....

1167.2 VP Units Wide x 1908.3 VP units long.

Of course I could be wrong.

=========================================================
EMs

Bally 70s EM - standard = 20.25" x 41.00" = 952 x 1927 vpus
G 70s EM - standard = 20.25" x 41.00" = 952 x 1927 vpus


Early SSs

*G System 1 - standard = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus
Stern - widebody = 23.875" x 45.00" = 1122 x 2115 vpus
*Stern - standard = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus
Zaccaria - standard SS - 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus
*Pre WMS Bally - standard = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus
*Pre WMS Bally - widebody = 26.75" x 40.50" = 1257 x 1904 vpus
*WMS System 1-11 - standard = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus
WMS System 1-11 - widebody = 27.00" x 42.00" = 1269 x 1974 vpus
*Atari - widebody = 27.00" x 45.00" = 1269 x 2115 vpus
*Gottlieb System 80 - standard = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus
*Gottlieb System 80 - widebody = 23.75" x 46.50" = 1116 x 2186 vpus
*Gottlieb System 80 - Circus (extra wide) = 26.75" x 46.50" = 1258 x 2186 vpus
*Game Plan - 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus

Modern SSs

Capcom tables = 20.25" x 46.00" = 952 x 2162 vpus
*Data East - standard = 20.25" x 46.00" = 952 x 2162 vpus
Data East - widebody = 25.00" x 51.75" = 1175 x 2432 vpus (is this right??)
*Safecracker = 16.50" x 41.50" = 776 x 1950 vpus
*WPC (through 1987) - standard = 20.50" x 42.00" = 964 x 1974 vpus
*WPC (1987 on) - standard = 20.50" x 46.00" = 964 x 2162 vpus
**Apparently at least one of these is not like the others.. I measured the Drac PF and it was/is 20.25" x 45.00" = 952 x 2115 vpus
*WPC - superpin = 23.25" x 46.00" = 1093 x 2162 vpus
*Pin2K tables = 20.50" x 43.00" = 964 x 2021 vpus
*Gottlieb System 3 = 20.25" x 46.00" = 952 x 2162 vpus
*Stern Modern = 20.25" x 45.00" = 952 x 2115 vpus
*Alvin G = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus *Mystery Castle looks to be 46" long (2162 vpus)

* = Verified

----------------------------------------------------
Individual Games
----------------------------------------------------
**There can always be exceptions to the above with certain unique tables, some of them are...

Black Knight 2000 (1989) = 20.25" x 46.00" = 952 x 2162 vpus
Bride of Pinbot (1991) = 20.25" x 45.25" = 952 x 2127 vpus
BSD Dracula (1993) : 20.25" x 45.00" = 952 x 2115 vpus
Doctor Who (1992) : 20.25" x 45.0625" = 952 x 2118 vpus
Hercules (1979 Atari) : 36" x 72" = 1692 x 3384 vpus (cabinet size: 39" x 93", and 83" tall) [991mm x 2362mm x 2108]
Mystery Castle (Alvin G) = 20.25" x 46.00" = 952 x 2162 vpus (likely but not 100% verified)
Safecracker (1996) : 16.50" x 41.50" = 776 x 1951 - probably more like 18.35" x 41.50" = 862 x 1951 - not verified though.
Varkon (1982) : 24" x 21" = 1128 x 987 vpus (WMS) (Yes, it is wider than it is long. Plays like a cocktail table.)
World Cup Soccer (1994) : 20.25" x 45.75" = 952 x 2150 vpus (Williams WPC-S)
(The "wall" at the back of the playfield with the stadium lights graphics is 515mm x 172mm (20.25" x 6.75"), and has slightly rounded top corners.)

----------------------------------------------------
The Unknowns
----------------------------------------------------
Sega (standard) = ??? (likely same as Data East standard)
Sega (widebody) = ??? (if you need to guess, try Date East Widebody size)
Micropin tabletops = ???
Cocktail tables = ???
Data East Widebody needs verified??? (best guess based on 46" height is 23.7" wide roughly)
Any others = ???

---------------------------------------------
From WMS site

"Williams' standard playfield length increased from 42" to 46" in 1988"
===========================================================

I checked the difference on VP9 and it's negligible. These dimensions should be fine for both programs.

The main difference between VP8 and VP9 is the physical size, not the apparent, visual size.

That's why there's no ball through the flipper in VP9 and some VP8 ramps are too small.

Attached Files


Edited by rob046, 04 September 2012 - 08:30 PM.


#14 CaptainNeo

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:33 PM

if you need measurements, I own nearly something from everyone. I have SEGA widebody, which is the same as DE widebody. GNR and Batman forever are the same size. I have gottlieb system 3's tho we uploaded the actual scan of the playfield, so you have the full size image. Any of the scans we supplied are full size real scans of the playfield, so the playfield is exact actual size. tho, when we upload it's 75dpi to reduce file size. so just take your measurements off that. SMB playfield is on it's way to be uploaded. I have it scanned in, and somehow we missed stitching it together.


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#15 rob046

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:33 AM

QUOTE (CaptainNeo @ Sep 3 2012, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
if you need measurements, I own nearly something from everyone. I have SEGA widebody, which is the same as DE widebody. GNR and Batman forever are the same size. I have gottlieb system 3's tho we uploaded the actual scan of the playfield, so you have the full size image. Any of the scans we supplied are full size real scans of the playfield, so the playfield is exact actual size. tho, when we upload it's 75dpi to reduce file size. so just take your measurements off that. SMB playfield is on it's way to be uploaded. I have it scanned in, and somehow we missed stitching it together.


Yes! That would be great if you could confirm the Sega/DE widebody size. I'm very curious to know if they are about the same size (or the same) as the Superpin's, or if indeed they are 4-5 inches longer (front to back). That just seems like too much to me but could be correct.
Also, do you think it is safe to say that standard Sega size is the same as standard Data East? I assume yes, but would be good to verify.

Also based on your guys' Al's Garage Band scan, that is another one where I'm guessing but would be surprised if I'm wrong. But since that PF has the same proportions as the older PF's, I'm guessing that it must be shorter than others, only 42" long. Interesting that they are fitting so much onto the smaller PF design (if I'm correct on this).

Anyhow, yeah if you could help with those Sega sizes that would be awesome because then that chart would have accurate measurements for almost every pin ever made.
The only other notable measurement aside from that would I think be for cocktail tables, I have no clue how those measure out. Also we have no confirmation on Game Plan tables, but probably safe to say they are same as Bally from that era.

Lastly, I'm not sure what you mean by the "actual size" thing. I don't think I have any PF scan from you guys that has an accurate size in photoshop. It does still help that the size height/width ratio is correct, but I'm unable to confirm any actual sizes with them. Some of them have print size that come close to the real size, but still just a little off. Then other scans, like the new Stargate scan, that only shows a "real" print size of like 5" x 11". Obviously nowhere near correct. I don't know a ton about how all the print or "real" sizes work on PC because I don't really do any printing.
Am I missing something here?

Edited by rob046, 04 September 2012 - 03:39 AM.


#16 Plumb

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:12 AM

QUOTE (rob046 @ Sep 3 2012, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lastly, I'm not sure what you mean by the "actual size" thing. I don't think I have any PF scan from you guys that has an accurate size in photoshop. It does still help that the size height/width ratio is correct, but I'm unable to confirm any actual sizes with them. Some of them have print size that come close to the real size, but still just a little off. Then other scans, like the new Stargate scan, that only shows a "real" print size of like 5" x 11". Obviously nowhere near correct. I don't know a ton about how all the print or "real" sizes work on PC because I don't really do any printing.
Am I missing something here?


If we uploaded the scans at 75DPI that means that every 75 pixels = one inch (length or width). So if (for example) The Stargate playfield is a full scan with all the playfield wood and it is 1519 pixels wide x 3450 pixels tall, to get either the width or length all you have to do is perform simple math. Divide the width or length by the DPI to get the scanned width or length (in inches). 1519 / 75 = 20.25 inches and 3450 / 75 = 46 inches. You can never rely on the embedded DPI number of an image as this is an arbitrary value that anyone can change at any time.

We tell you the actual DPI of our uploaded scans so I'm not sure where the mystery remains. Pixels/DPI = length or width for complete playfield scan.

Now if the scan doesn't contain all the bare wood border, you can't get an overall dimension from it unless you know the length or width of the part that is missing (our STTNG scan for instance). Especially earlier, when Neo scanned playfields, he was scanning them for future restoration purposes/reference only, in which case he would 'spot scan' or didn't need to scan to or past the edge of the playfield wood or scan the area under the apron as he would never need to 'touch up' bare wood with paint, screens, water slide decals, or small overlays. More recently I have been asking him to scan to the edge of all borders of the playfield if he can. In this case he still gets what he is looking for and we can use this for simulations. Even if the overall playfield isn't scanned. A few simple measurements from reference points on the playfield can allow you to create a 'full' playfield blank to drop our scans onto. Some of the scans we have uploaded were scanned by myself and I make sure that I scan past the overall playfield so that I can crop back to full playfield borders.

#17 rob046

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:26 AM

Ah! No mystery. This was just the simple fact that I didn't know you could calculate real world sizes this way. But you explained it & now I know! Until now I guess I'd sometimes just go by whatever the photoshop print size tells me, at least when it appears somewhat accurate.
But yeah I've no experience in the world of printing & scanning, & this is a nice bit of info to have. I learned something today!

I'm sure I'll have some other practical applications for this stuff. If I should need to print out a real life plastic scan or something, this could come in handy. Or a decal, target decal or something. In fact, even when working in photoshop for a VP table & I need to size a scan that is proportionate... methinks I'll no longer need to use guesswork on that:)

#18 Plumb

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:55 AM

QUOTE (rob046 @ Sep 3 2012, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes! That would be great if you could confirm the Sega/DE widebody size. I'm very curious to know if they are about the same size (or the same) as the Superpin's, or if indeed they are 4-5 inches longer (front to back). That just seems like too much to me but could be correct.

Also, do you think it is safe to say that standard Sega size is the same as standard Data East? I assume yes, but would be good to verify.

Also based on your guys' Al's Garage Band scan, that is another one where I'm guessing but would be surprised if I'm wrong. But since that PF has the same proportions as the older PF's, I'm guessing that it must be shorter than others, only 42" long. Interesting that they are fitting so much onto the smaller PF design (if I'm correct on this).

Anyhow, yeah if you could help with those Sega sizes that would be awesome because then that chart would have accurate measurements for almost every pin ever made.
The only other notable measurement aside from that would I think be for cocktail tables, I have no clue how those measure out. Also we have no confirmation on Game Plan tables, but probably safe to say they are same as Bally from that era.


Neo can measure the Sega/DE widebody. I've never owned a Sega or DE widebody but he certainly has them. wink.gif
Since Data East became Sega became Stern, the standard pf lengths should be 45 or 46 but we can verify the Sega for all.

Alvin G Garage Band is 42 long. Which can be verified with the scan we uploaded. Mystery Castle appears to be 46 inches long

Stern SS Standard = Bally SS Standard = Zaccaria SS Standard = Game Plan SS Standard = early WMS SS Standard = Gottlieb System1 standard size = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus. I just measured my Sterns, Ballys, and Game Plans.

I did have a Game Plan cocktail at one time but don't anymore.

There was a later version of this guide that had other confirmed measurements but it is lost in the ether. wink.gif

Edited by Plumb, 04 September 2012 - 05:54 AM.


#19 rob046

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 07:30 AM

QUOTE (Plumb @ Sep 4 2012, 12:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (rob046 @ Sep 3 2012, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes! That would be great if you could confirm the Sega/DE widebody size. I'm very curious to know if they are about the same size (or the same) as the Superpin's, or if indeed they are 4-5 inches longer (front to back). That just seems like too much to me but could be correct.

Also, do you think it is safe to say that standard Sega size is the same as standard Data East? I assume yes, but would be good to verify.

Also based on your guys' Al's Garage Band scan, that is another one where I'm guessing but would be surprised if I'm wrong. But since that PF has the same proportions as the older PF's, I'm guessing that it must be shorter than others, only 42" long. Interesting that they are fitting so much onto the smaller PF design (if I'm correct on this).

Anyhow, yeah if you could help with those Sega sizes that would be awesome because then that chart would have accurate measurements for almost every pin ever made.
The only other notable measurement aside from that would I think be for cocktail tables, I have no clue how those measure out. Also we have no confirmation on Game Plan tables, but probably safe to say they are same as Bally from that era.


Neo can measure the Sega/DE widebody. I've never owned a Sega or DE widebody but he certainly has them. wink.gif
Since Data East became Sega became Stern, the standard pf lengths should be 45 or 46 but we can verify the Sega for all.

Alvin G Garage Band is 42 long. Which can be verified with the scan we uploaded. Mystery Castle appears to be 46 inches long

Stern SS Standard = Bally SS Standard = Zaccaria SS Standard = Game Plan SS Standard = early WMS SS Standard = Gottlieb System1 standard size = 20.25" x 42.00" = 952 x 1974 vpus. I just measured my Sterns, Ballys, and Game Plans.

I did have a Game Plan cocktail at one time but don't anymore.

There was a later version of this guide that had other confirmed measurements but it is lost in the ether. wink.gif


Great. Yeah just needing cocktail & Sega standard & Widebody sizes, or just widebody if we assume Sega & DE standard are the same since we have standard DE measurement.
Have you checked the chart I posted a few posts above? I updated that today with info found from an FP table size chart I had, which had more info on it. I just had to do some conversions to ***'s. Not only did I add the latest additions, but you'll see a handful of the other sizes for oddball tables that might of been missing from previous charts on here.

Hopefully we have filled all the gaps now from what you think the latest version of it had at the old VPF. Unless you think that may have had cocktail & widebody Sega sizes on it. Anyhow, this is great, we are so close having this thing complete after all these years, or at least complete enough to cover 99% of tables.
The only thing we may never know is what other tables, if any, have oddball sizes. But for the purposes of VP & getting art & ball sizes correct, I think we are in pretty good shape.

#20 hmueck

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 06:42 PM

QUOTE (Plumb @ Sep 4 2012, 06:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There was a later version of this guide that had other confirmed measurements but it is lost in the ether. wink.gif

Maybe the measurements are in this post?

3d1ea0937d543213c4e6225bbe8e1268.png 7be8d6d592e00b730785fe4321b1f6f9.png beb5cf1c113018c3487ea7cfe58da3be.png WIP:7ed65abe8b9ab7173bdcd92f812a40ca.png





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