2087 replies to this topic

[mukuste]

Changing Collidable from the script should work.

[unclewilly]

That would be awesome. If I render it in the collide able position first then I can turn it on and off with the animation. Will test tomorrow after work

[BigBoss]

 

Yea. Pinball at 60hz vsync a single frame is a lot of lag. I suggest hard coding the default of max prerendered to 1 and letting users adjust it if they want.

 
There is no such thing. Either it is hardcoded, or it's adjustable by the user. You can't have both.
 
Defaulting to 2 is reasonable since that is what every DX9 version in the last weeks has used, and nobody has ever noticed any flipper lag with that. People who want even more control should then be able to adjust it to 1 via the options, but it comes at a significant FPS cost and shouldn't be the default.
 

I would argue that no one has ever noticed flipper lag because prior to the physmod, the flipper physics were so horrible that you couldn't really tell if the problem was lag or a completely broken engine. In either case, if the option exists, we can set it. So your plan sounds good enough to me

Edited by BigBoss, 19 April 2014 - 02:00 PM.

[DJRobX]

 

I would argue that no one has ever noticed flipper lag because prior to the physmod, the flipper physics were so horrible that you couldn't really tell if the problem was lag or a completely broken engine. In either case, if the option exists, we can set it. So your plan sounds good enough to me

 

 

Flipper lag is harder to notice if you don't have a real pinball machine to reference it against.  You learn to accommodate, but if I go back and forth between my real pin and my VP cab, it takes a few games to adjust.  

 

The DX9 port seems to have less lag than the DX7 edition, even with the pre-rendered frames at 2.     It's better still at 1, and I don't notice any performance differences on my gear.

[mukuste]

 

 

I would argue that no one has ever noticed flipper lag because prior to the physmod, the flipper physics were so horrible that you couldn't really tell if the problem was lag or a completely broken engine. In either case, if the option exists, we can set it. So your plan sounds good enough to me

 

 

Flipper lag is harder to notice if you don't have a real pinball machine to reference it against.  You learn to accommodate, but if I go back and forth between my real pin and my VP cab, it takes a few games to adjust.  

 

The DX9 port seems to have less lag than the DX7 edition, even with the pre-rendered frames at 2.     It's better still at 1, and I don't notice any performance differences on my gear.

 

The limit of 2 is still lower than no limit at all (usually means about 4 frames in my experience), which is what the DX7 version had, so that's probably why.

 

Also it seems toxie put that field in the options, so, starting with the next release this will be user-adjustable!

[mukuste]

Download VP9_DX9_test15 here:   VP9_DX9_test15.zip   682.38KB   279 downloads (rev1007)
If you get flicker, please disable 4xMSAA.

Try the frame limiter, e.g. at 120 fps, for smoother gameplay!

Table compatibility spreadsheet (thanks to gtxjoe): https://docs.google....EPwri8/viewform

 

We've made some good progress on the todo list, so I'm putting out a new test version.

 

I've come up with a little hack to improve the whole "ball in kicker" situation a bit. It's not perfect and I'm frankly not entirely happy with it, but it does improve the sliced balls somewhat. There seems to be no easy solution to this, and with a real 3D ball coming up in VP10, I just can't bring myself to put an enormous amount of effort into getting this completely perfect now.

 

The rest of the things to do are basically small GUI things. Unless there are important bugs left (or new ones introduced), this might well be the last test version before the official DX9 release! So it's important that this version gets a good round of testing.

 

Changes since Test14:

• balls in kickers will get sliced a bit less
• gates can now properly be made visible through script even if Visible is unchecked in the editor (thanks DJRobX for the report)
• (fuzzel) fullscreen modes removed
• (fuzzel) maximum prerendered frames now adjustable in video options
• (fuzzel) fix for textbox font size

Known specific table issues:

https://docs.google....p=sharing#gid=0

 

Happy testing!

[ClarkKent]

Great! Will you also compile one of the next test version with the new physics?

[buttsy19]

Not sure if this is an issue with test 15 but in Big Bang Bar the tube dancer is missing.

[unclewilly]

Probably a draw in order issue.
Soon to be updated

[pmarak]

I had the same issue with the Tube Dancer and I corrected it by changing the Draw Front and Draw Back settings for the tube and the dancer.

 

In test15, at least for me, the troll bridges in Medieval Madness show as a black box. Until the trolls popup, them they show their graphic. Still can't figure this one out.

[DJRobX]

 

I've come up with a little hack to improve the whole "ball in kicker" situation a bit. It's not perfect and I'm frankly not entirely happy with it, but it does improve the sliced balls somewhat. There seems to be no easy solution to this, and with a real 3D ball coming up in VP10, I just can't bring myself to put an enormous amount of effort into getting this completely perfect now.

 

 

Cool, this hack seems to work well for FS tables.    Seems to fix Elvira and the Party Monsters completely.    The desktop version is still cut in half.   I noticed if I mess with the "0.3" and change it to an "0.6":

 

 const Vertex3Ds offset = (0.6f * pball->radius) * m_pin3d.m_viewVec;

 

The hack works for the desktop table as well, although I'm not sure what other evil demons I'm releasing by doing so.  

[kiwi]

I don't remember if this has already been said, this thread is very long.
In desktop tables with lights inserts two steps (one light, on and off, no fading), there is not much difference between lights on and off, the light is a mix between off-on or on-off, the lights seem a bit transparent.
In full screen tables the problem is not present.

 

Thanks

 

Max

[garath]

I had the same issue with the Tube Dancer and I corrected it by changing the Draw Front and Draw Back settings for the tube and the dancer.

 

In test15, at least for me, the troll bridges in Medieval Madness show as a black box. Until the trolls popup, them they show their graphic. Still can't figure this one out.

 

Tested the test15 and I didn't notice these problems : my troll bridges are here. No problems for me.

[mukuste]

Great! Will you also compile one of the next test version with the new physics?

 

Probably for the official DX9 release, I'll produce a new physmod.

 

 

Not sure if this is an issue with test 15 but in Big Bang Bar the tube dancer is missing.

 

The problem is that the tube is rendered first, and then the dancer is masked out by the depth buffer. To fix this, assign a positive depth bias to the dancer (50 worked for me). This ensures that the dancer is rendered first and then the tube on top of her.

 

I don't think Draw in front/Draw in back can fix this, but I'd be curious to hear how.

 

 

I had the same issue with the Tube Dancer and I corrected it by changing the Draw Front and Draw Back settings for the tube and the dancer.

 

In test15, at least for me, the troll bridges in Medieval Madness show as a black box. Until the trolls popup, them they show their graphic. Still can't figure this one out.

 

Can't reproduce the MM issue. Would need exact table version and/or screenshot.

 

 

 

 

I've come up with a little hack to improve the whole "ball in kicker" situation a bit. It's not perfect and I'm frankly not entirely happy with it, but it does improve the sliced balls somewhat. There seems to be no easy solution to this, and with a real 3D ball coming up in VP10, I just can't bring myself to put an enormous amount of effort into getting this completely perfect now.

 

 

Cool, this hack seems to work well for FS tables.    Seems to fix Elvira and the Party Monsters completely.    The desktop version is still cut in half.   I noticed if I mess with the "0.3" and change it to an "0.6":

 

 const Vertex3Ds offset = (0.6f * pball->radius) * m_pin3d.m_viewVec;

 

The hack works for the desktop table as well, although I'm not sure what other evil demons I'm releasing by doing so.  

 

 

It's not really cut in half though, is it? More like a little bit chipped off at the bottom. I might increase that offset value (at least for lower viewing angles), was a bit scared to cause other artifacts.

 

 

I don't remember if this has already been said, this thread is very long.
In desktop tables with lights inserts two steps (one light, on and off, no fading), there is not much difference between lights on and off, the light is a mix between off-on or on-off, the lights seem a bit transparent.
In full screen tables the problem is not present.

 

Thanks

 

Max

 

Do you have an example?

[Horrible]

I had the same issue with the Tube Dancer and I corrected it by changing the Draw Front and Draw Back settings for the tube and the dancer.
 
In test15, at least for me, the troll bridges in Medieval Madness show as a black box. Until the trolls popup, them they show their graphic. Still can't figure this one out.

Trolls ok for me, however tube dancer isn't. Have looked for settings to change to no avail. Any pointers please?

[kiwi]

@Mukuste

 

Take a look at the table I sent you,
when the lights are off you can see the halo of the bulb lit, and when the lights are on, they are not very bright.
In the table there are four yellow round lights (mid-table, two lights on the left and two on the right) without an image on-off assigned, and you can see that they are transparent.
The same table in full screen works well.

 

Max

[pmarak]

@Horrible

 

As Mukuste said....assign a positive value for the dancers depth bias (50 works) 

 

@Mukuste

Not sure how draw back/front worked for me, but it did. I did not touch the bias on either object.

I'm new to this so excuse my ignorance.

 

For the troll bridges...I re-downloaded and overwrote the one I was using and now the bridges are there.  ??????? 

[garath]

"The problem is that the tube is rendered first, and then the dancer is masked out by the depth buffer. To fix this, assign a positive depth bias to the dancer (50 worked for me). This ensures that the dancer is rendered first and then the tube on top of her."

=> worked for me, have now the dancer again, thanks !

Edited by garath, 20 April 2014 - 10:10 AM.

[Horrible]

@Horrible
 
As Mukuste said....assign a positive value for the dancers depth bias (50 works) 
 
@Mukuste
Not sure how draw back/front worked for me, but it did. I did not touch the bias on either object.
I'm new to this so excuse my ignorance.
 
For the troll bridges...I re-downloaded and overwrote the one I was using and now the bridges are there.  ???????

Pmarak

Thanks, worked a dream.

Cheers

[BigBoss]

The tube dancer is also missing in the physmod version which uses the old 9.2 rendering engine. So its probably a table issue not a VP dx9 issue.