416 replies to this topic

[antropus]

UPDATE 7/28/2013:
 
Mine is fully working now! (thanks Russ and Rocco!)
Here are some examples Watch it in HD:

Link:

Ps.: background sound effects by my wife and son
 
UPDATE 6/18/2013:
 
The code is broken!
Thanks to a collective effort we were able to bring this thing to reality and now you too can have an amazing PLASMA DMD running in your machine!!! The final investment should run at around $350.00 all together, depending on the parts you picked (before taxes and shipment).
 
A huge thanks goes to Zebulon (for all the technical expertise), RoccoC (for breaking the code and for providing us with the schematics and description of the necessary parts), PinKitty (for being the first person to reveal the possibilty and inspiring me to start this thread), Russdx (for the amazing pinDMD interface) and others for all the valuable time and help!
 

DISCLAIMER:
Be aware that the voltages at work here are very dangerous and could kill you! So, do it at your own risk!

 
Here's what you will need:

1) Power Supply Board - to convert the transformer AC voltages to the DC voltages required by the display.
Best options available:

 

- Zebulon's DMD Power Board ($45.00): http://zebsboards.co...es/dmdnh-detail

- DMD Piggy (around $40.00 from PInball Life... link down): http://virtuapin.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=132
- Rottendog (around $90.00): http://bayareaamusem...ode=PC-A-14039R

2) Transformer - The power supply requires inputs of 80VAC and 100VAC. You can either use two separate transformers for this, or use a single dual output transformer. RoccoC is putting a 20-units order together to save money, so if you're interested make sure to post on this thread saying so. It should run at about $35.00 or so for a two-in-one input 80VAC/100VAC, output 120VAC transformer.

3) ATX PSU - The power supply board also needs 12VDC and 5VDC. I'm using a common ATX power supply for this, but you may be able to use separate supplies if necessary.
An option that I found is a separated PSU that should work and it's very cheap (around $10.00): http://www.amazon.co...er supply molex

4) Necessary connectors:
http://www.pinballli...product&id=1600 (x2)
http://www.pinballli...product&id=1599 (x1)
http://www.pinballli...product&id=1597 (x1)
5) Colored wires for easy identification: black, red, yellow, purple, blue

6) pinDMD control board: brilliant product from RussDX, this board is the interface between your computer/emulator and the PLASMA/LED DMD Display (around $90.00): http://www.pindmd.com/default.php

7) Vishay Plasma DMD (around $160.00): http://virtuapin.net...products_id=123

Here's the wiring diagram (independently of the driver board used, J604, J605 and J606 will be present and the wiring should be done the same way):
 

Cheers,
-Kris

=================================================================================================================================================================================

 
I started this topic because the information is a little scattered and most people are searching for the easier, safer, uncluttered way, which is simply using a LED DMD instead of a plasma. But since I'm one of those few who really want to be able to run a plasma DMD, I hope this topic will serve as a general reference guide to all of those looking for similar info.

I'll post references of everything I find related and I hope people do the same. If we compile enough information here, at the end we can surely come up with a step-by-step, fool proof manual explaining how it can be done, parts needed, things to be aware of etc.

I hope the electrical geniuses out there can help us out with this!

Here's my research so far:

Resources:

pinDMD2 driver board - used to send info from pinmame to the display: http://www.vpforums....showtopic=21194 (can be ordered from virtuapin.net)

http://www.pinballli...product&id=2828

WPC Transformer Voltages: http://iobium.com/wpc_transformers.htm

More on Williams Voltages necessary to power the DMD: http://www.tomshardw...former-voltages

Necessary connectors:
http://www.pinballli...product&id=1600
http://www.pinballli...product&id=1599

Plasma DMD ready for shipping: http://www.pinballli...=product&id=164

Vishay APD-128G032 specs: http://www.vishay.co...006/apd128g.pdf

Visual Reference: http://www.silverbal...tng_newdmd2.jpg

How do I get those voltages?

1) 5v, 12v and ground straight from a computer PSU
2) 120v to 100v and 80v step-down transformer

The connection between the display and the pinDMD2 is as simple as plugging a single 14-pin cable.
The tricky part is to feed the correct voltages to the display power board.

Here's what I gathered as some of the main differences between LED and PLASMA DMDs:

LED DMDs:
The best: Vishay (other brands available, most segmented, meaning empty visible lines running across the display)
DMD Price LEE-128G032B (segmented - the cheapest): $279.95
DMD Price LEE-128G032-1 (unsegmented - the closest to a plasma): $543.89
How it's driven: pinDMD2
Power Source: pinDMD2 via USB
Voltage: 5v
pinDMD2 Price: $89.95
Look: looks good, sometimes too bright or not as bright as the plasmas, just different. It has visible segments (unless you spend a lot of money on the unsegmented version). Not quite the same as the original plasmas if you're looking for the "authentic look".
Footprint: very little, basically just the DMD, the very tiny pinDMD2 and an USB cable.
Life span: very long

Total cost: $369.90 (with segmented LED - 8x8 LED light blocks, meaning visible lines)
Total cost: $633.84 (with unsegmented LED - evenly spaced LED lights, like the plasmas)

Plasma DMDs:
The best: Vishay
DMD Price: $159.95
How it's driven: pinDMD2
Power Source: Computer PSU + 2 transformers + Display Power Board
Cost of both transformers (120v to 100v and 120v to 80v): $40.00
Cost of the Power Board: $39.95
Voltages: 100v, 80v, 12v, 5v
pinDMD2 Price: $89.95
Look: doesn't get any better than this. It's the original display used in dozens of machines.
Footprint: needs additional space for both transformers, the display power board and extra wiring. The 120v to 100v plugs directly to the outlet, so in reality you just need extra space for the 120v to 80v transformer+case and the display power board. These are the dimensions of the transformer, so make sure you have space in the cab: 3.25" (L) x 2.1" (W) x 1.94" (H)
Life span: long, around 12 years or more (I believe the one in my Monster Bash is original and the machine is about 15 years old. Still looks great)

Total cost: $329.85 (+fuse and other minor electronic parts for extra safety)

At the end you saved about $40 in relation to the cheapest, segmented LED display, but you saved a whooping $303.99 in relation to an unsegmented LED display and you got a display that looks and feels like the original ones, because it IS an original display. More headache? Definitely! Not as clean and also got some high voltages introduced to your cab. But if you are a pinball owner already, as I am, I'm pretty aware of the high voltage running in my pinball already
Besides, where's the fun without a good little challenge?

If you're trying to get the best of both worlds, than you can get a real Vishay plasma DMD 12v with an integrated power supply for about $475.05 from uk.mouser.com
Add to that the price of the pinDMD2 and you got to $565.00 (!)

Please, if you have any more information on this subject, feel free to post, including some much needed schematics.

Thanks!
-Kris

[mameman23]

Nice kris, been wanting to get around to playing with this for sometime now. I too read the blog where the guy used a number of transformers to get the voltages he needed. In that he was also feeding one transformer from another to get the correct voltages. Assuming you can get those required voltages it should be a fairly easy wiring job to feed the power board. From that its just a straight connector to the Dmd panel for power. I have a crappy one here in my dr who I need to replace so may have a play also.

[zebulon]

You need 2 transformers, one to convert 120vac to 100vac and 1 to transform 120vac to 80vac. You have to use to separate transformers (unless you can find one that is center tapped at 80vac) as you need 2 isolated voltages on the secondary side due to the fact that the 100vac will be rectified to -112vdc and -100vdc in reference to the +65vdc from the 80v transformer output.

 

You can also hack a 12v inverter for a car (75w will do) which puts out roughly 95-100vac in a square wave signal (soesn't matter that it's not sinudial as it will be rectidied back to dc by the high voltage board). Once agin, you would need 2 inverters as the 100vac is going to be referenced as -100vdc for the circuit.

[kruge99]

You need 2 transformers, one to convert 120vac to 100vac and 1 to transform 120vac to 80vac. You have to use to separate transformers (unless you can find one that is center tapped at 80vac) as you need 2 isolated voltages on the secondary side due to the fact that the 100vac will be rectified to -112vdc and -100vdc in reference to the +65vdc from the 80v transformer output.

 

You can also hack a 12v inverter for a car (75w will do) which puts out roughly 95-100vac in a square wave signal (soesn't matter that it's not sinudial as it will be rectidied back to dc by the high voltage board). Once agin, you would need 2 inverters as the 100vac is going to be referenced as -100vdc for the circuit.

 

Holy Fricken Techno-babble!!!  I have -1,000,000 hit-points after that forum post!!  I hope you all were paying close attention to Zeb there, because that is a pay cheque earning something or other!!!!1111one!!!1!

[Slydog43]

Russ, the guy who made the PinDMD1 and PinDMD2 was working with his father a while back on a "power" board for a plasma screen.  I think they were very busy and project was put on hold.  Maybe he could be convinced to start again.  I recommend his PinDMD2, its totally top notch work!

[zebulon]

"Holy Fricken Techno-babble!!!  I have -1,000,000 hit-points after that forum post!!  I hope you all were paying close attention to Zeb there, because that is a pay cheque earning something or other!!!!1111one!!!1!"

 

Yeah with my typos and all....need new batteries for the keyboard I guess......

BTW Kris....I'd strongly recommend a metal enclosure for the transformers and a fuse on the hot side of the ac supply to them.......

Edited by zebulon, 20 February 2013 - 02:38 AM.

[antropus]

mameman23,
yes, as Zebulon mentioned, seems like two transformers should provide you with the high voltages necessary to run it.
These are the ones I ordered, 40 bucks combined (links on the first post):

 0000934_xpwr026120_300.jpg   6.35KB   78 downloads  TIKI-VT100J(BIG).jpg   38.04KB   68 downloads

Zeb, looking at those pictures I think the 120v > 100v is already closed, safe and plug and play. You just need to get the wires from the outlet. It has a fuse in it already and it's rated 100W max, but the DMD max load all together is about 45W so it should be more than enough.

The 120v > 80v will need a box and fuse. Could you tell us what kind of fuse should we get and how it's wired so I can add to the documentation?

kruge99, no kidding man! Here we are pretending we know something and BAM!!! Zeb hijacks our thread with knowledge!!!

Slydog43, yes, he stopped that project for now and Zeb is busy with other cool stuff (but he is here supporting our cause none the less! ), so it's kinda up to us to figure it out. I'm sure we will get this thing up and running pretty soon, at least I hope so

-Kris

Edited by antropus, 20 February 2013 - 05:32 PM.

[Shakenbake]

5 Volt LED DMD's easily hooked up to the PC's power supply souund worth the extra $$ to me. Unless of course Russ and his Dad are able to offer a easy solution.

[antropus]

That's what I mentioned in the beginning of this thread, that the easy way is the 5 Volt LED, but some people would like to use existent and/or readily available plasma Displays.

Edit: moved the comparison tables to the first post.

-Kris

Edited by antropus, 21 February 2013 - 12:33 AM.

[mameman23]

might be easier with a WPC powerboard, read this on one forum.

'Stern uses a center tap transformer to produce the two voltages while WPC uses two separate transformers, hence the wiring difference. I *think* you can connect a Stern transformer to a WPC dmd controller using the center tap with both segments, but I have no idea if you can do what you want, which is the opposite.'

[antropus]

I was thinking about this too. The original board suggested by Zeb was a replacement for the high voltage session of the WPC. It's actually 10 bucks cheaper than the Stern: http://www.pinballli...product&id=2828

We just need more info on that board. I got some info from the guy who produces and sells them to pinballlife. Here's the email I got from him:

"My board takes 100 and 80vac and the 5&12vdc if you have an old pin transformer or something that should be easy. I'd have to check tolerances, but it can probably handle a sizable deviation from 80 and 100v input. Output as far as the higher voltages go is around +65vdc and then two -110vdc +\- 10v with a separation of 12v (going from memory so i may be off on these numbers)
let me know what you can get for input voltages. Using a computer power supply for 5 and 12v works fine."

-Kris

Edited by antropus, 20 February 2013 - 08:03 PM.

[mameman23]

i like the look of that, might be the way to go. I dropped Troy a note with a couple questions also.

[antropus]

Sweet!

[zebulon]

For an enclosure you can get away with a basic project box, radio shack or any electronics outlet sells them. You want something that leaves a bit of room around the transformer and is easy to ventilate (read drill holes in... )

 

 

 

A standard fuseholder with a 3A 250V fuse will do the trick.

 

 

 

Put it inline on the black (hot) lead on the incoming ac.

 

Whether it is a center tapped or 2 separate transformers makes no difference. Either way, the 80v ac gets rectified to 80vdc (or close to it, there is a voltage drop across the diode bridge) and the (+80V) voltage stays high in the circuit while the (-) goes to common (0V).

 

The 100v ac is where it gets switched around. The 100vdc from the bridge has the (+) set low in the circuit  on the common line (0V) and the (-) is even lower at (-100V). It then gets ramped up (down) to (-112vdc) in a switching circuit (read amplifier) while the base voltage of (-100v) remains. The -12v difference is used as a reference signal on the actual dmd circuitry to indicate a good power condition and to fire the tube.

 

Why you need the 2 voltages isolated from each other is so that when you put the 100vdc +v on the common, you don't get a dead short circuit.

 

Easy huh ....

 

Just go with the 2 transformers and a high voltage board and you'll be fine.

Edited by zebulon, 20 February 2013 - 11:43 PM.

[antropus]

Helpful as usual, Zeb. Thank you very much!

-Kris

[russdx]

when it comes to analog electronics im totally lost im more a digital hehe, so all this sorta voltages and negative voltages and crap just goes over my head. but luckily my dad is a electrical engineer and understands it all he was going down the other route. instead of buying two transformers he is trying to build his own switch mode power supply from scratch(using a 12v dmd schematic as reference) that creates the correct voltages. using his own custom transformer. this way the board can be built pretty cheap and does not reply on other expensive transformers. hes built a few prototypes but seams to be having trouble keeping the output voltage stable. but im sure when he gets back on the project he will sus it once the prototype works ill design a nice little pcb with a custom plastic vacuum form case so people cant touch the high voltage side of the circuit.

 

hes a bit busy with renovating the house at the moment so the project has been put on hold and i just don't understand this sorta stuff so cant really help lol

 

nice to know people want to run the real deal. as if you guys like the look of a led yall love what the real plasma looks like

Edited by russdx, 21 February 2013 - 05:37 PM.

[mameman23]

Here's an overview for the wiring using the piggy back board. I should have mine soon so I can also test it out.

 

Zeb, do you mind just verifying based on your knowledge so we can hope to be smoke free

 

[antropus]

Thanks for stopping by, Russ! I hope more people will get excited about using their plasma DMDs, that way having a working plasma/pinDMD2 combo on a budget ;D

Excelent job, Greg! I'll reply here too as other people might need this info as well: the 100v transformer was delivered in only 2 days, but the 80v is assembled on demand. Mine was ordered over a week ago and the status is still "in production". I'll let you all know how long does it take to get it once mine is delivered. Meanwhile I'll send them an email asking for an estimate time.

Cheers,
-Kris

Alright, just called them. Here's the bad news:

Q: When will my order ship?
A: EDCOR builds to order. Please allow 5 to 6 weeks, as stated in the shopping cart, before the order is shipped.

It's going to be a looooong wait for me
Maybe we should try to find an alternative...

-Kris

Edited by antropus, 21 February 2013 - 05:24 PM.

[russdx]

6weeks wtf they adding 1 wind a day or somin lol

[Aurich]

Something to keep in mind is that plasma DMDs are basically dead, no idea if they're even making new ones still (Brett from X-Pin told me not, but I haven't verified), but if so that's not going to last, there's no commercial demand for them anymore.

So if you're in love with this idea (and why wouldn't you be!?) you might want to think about acquiring one before it starts to become a bit more difficult to source them, especially cheaply.