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Future pinball physics.


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#1 chivato

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 10:21 PM

I was playing some future pinball this week and damm these ball physics are really worthless.
Have seen en played some great tables but the ball physics are ruine the gameplay.

So my question is are these physics ever gonna change?
And if not is it really worth it making all those great tables?

#2 rcadefrk

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:53 AM

I like both VP & FP. Alot of older FP tables are weaker on the physics side of things, but you can manually adjust settings to get pretty good ball physics. Hence thats why alot of newer recreations play alot better than older ones. I play alot of FP & to be honest, i don't have any problems at all with it....just like having fun playing pinball. The ultimate would be to have a 3D VP9 environment. basically VP with FP Graphics/Scrolling Effects....but keep in mind, no matter how good vp/fp gets, they won't be as good as the real thing

#3 thewool

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 08:19 AM

Someone on here (maybe Maceman) published a guide on how to generally improve the settings for FP tables, by altering the physics for slope, flippers, etc. I tried this on a few tables and it seemed to make the gameplay less 'lazy'. On the newer tables things seem to play a lot better.

I just wish I could crack the ball stutter or lag issues. You neef to live with the lag and a stutter-free ball, or no lag and ball stutter sad.gif


edit: it wasn't Maceman, it was BigBoss. You could try experimenting with the settings in this thread: http://www.vpforums....php/t12711.html

Edited by thewool, 15 September 2011 - 08:25 AM.


#4 chivato

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 10:48 AM

QUOTE (thewool @ Sep 15 2011, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Someone on here (maybe Maceman) published a guide on how to generally improve the settings for FP tables, by altering the physics for slope, flippers, etc. I tried this on a few tables and it seemed to make the gameplay less 'lazy'. On the newer tables things seem to play a lot better.

I just wish I could crack the ball stutter or lag issues. You neef to live with the lag and a stutter-free ball, or no lag and ball stutter sad.gif


edit: it wasn't Maceman, it was BigBoss. You could try experimenting with the settings in this thread: http://www.vpforums....php/t12711.html

Thanks for the advice

I will try experimenting with the physics .

Hope one day the it will be just as good as visual pinball


#5 FrankT

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 10:56 AM

I find it difficult modelling things in VP. whtflag.gif So I work my way around the FP physics. If I'm not mistaken, they were modelled after older tables, were they not?

#6 faralos

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 02:58 PM

many FP tables are also originals some may be modeled after older pins but not all, same goes for VP there are originals made in vp also
the newer FP pins tend to have better physics, can't explain why though...but a few wip's I have been playtesting in FP seem to have pretty good physics in them a few wonky spots (like balls hitting slings at a 90 degree angle to the sling rubber and traveling straight up the play field)
but for the most part they are all playing much better than some of the older FP pins...
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#7 numiah

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:48 PM

One thing is for sure. FP will never be updated.
And VP porting over to 3d isn't likely as all tables most like have to be remade.

It is as it is, but I'm glad with both.

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#8 chivato

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:07 PM

QUOTE (numiah @ Sep 15 2011, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One thing is for sure. FP will never be updated.
And VP porting over to 3d isn't likely as all tables most like have to be remade.

It is as it is, but I'm glad with both.

Why will FP never be updated?

#9 numiah

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:12 PM

One of the main creators of that pretty piece of software ceased development a while ago and moved on to other projects.
Christopher Leathley had his own personal reasons for discontinuing. Goolge a bit on his name and you might find the actual cause.

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#10 user42

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:33 PM

I don't mind the physics in FP (once I figured out that the nudge is reversed). In fact there are some FP tables that I prefer to the VP versions. It is especially true for EM tables but even true on some newer tables, Xenon and Sharky's Shootout come to mind. The only problem with FP running SS tables is the lack of rom support, both of the previously mentioned tables are missing some sounds.... Is there any chance that someday someone will hack FP to have rom support or is that just a crazy pipe dream?

#11 rcadefrk

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 07:50 PM

Probally a pipe dream, that would be the day.....i like fp the way it is, makes the tables a little different, so im justified in having the same tables for both fp & vp. I'm with numiah, if this is as good as it gets, i'm thrilled to be able to play all these great pinball machines on my pc.

#12 top1percent

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 02:35 PM

As a long time Pinball collector and VP user, I just recently tried FP. I gotta say I really enjoy all the original tables FP has to offer. However, like a lot of people here have stated, the physics in FP are definitely off a bit. Not that VP is perfect, but it is more accurate in my opinion. I certainly realize there's a difference between real pinball and Virtual Pinball as I have the luxury of playing the real game and the virtual version side by side of some tables. I enjoy both and have built 2 Virtual Pinball cabs to support my habit with plans and cabs already in place for 2 more. That being said, some of the FP tables are much better than others. I was playing Road Girls Revisited last night and almost forgot I was playing FP. It felt right and the shots from the flippers lined up accurately.

So, I guess I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between Road Girls Revisited and a lot of other tables. BBB and Iron Man (the 2 main reasons I decided to give FP a go) are beautiful tables and very impressive, but they suffer from some inaccurate physics. Is there a way for me as the user to copy the physics from one table to another via settings? Do the developers control the physics or is it just part of the software? If it's part of the software why would there be any difference between games?

I'll check out the guide posted earlier and see if that helps. I really hope so because the tables in FP are beautiful and the developers that create them and the VP tables are crazy talented and I really appreciate all of their efforts!



#13 maceman

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 03:38 PM

I try not compare real pinball with emulated....... it helps to just enjoy Video pinball for what it is.

I like FP for the graphics and original tables. I think there are so many awesome original tables on FP that make it very worthwhile to play, "Darkquest" alone is one very very good reason to play FP.

However, those who have played real pinball and spend the time to design their tables to try to match a real table get a better result in the end. Those who spend some time tweaking the flipper settings and such will find even the worst tables much more playable...so there is work involved for those who find a table they like... set-up doesn't just end after the screens are centered...no, you need to spend some time setting up slope and flippers and such.

I only play on my cab, so i always set my slope at around 9.8 in FP, and flippers i try to keep at intermediate and then work from there.

Instead of thinking of hacking FP to update, I think it would be more productive to try to contact Black and see if he would open up the code to someone(s) serious to improve it...otherwise, we would just tick him off! If someone showed him just how popular it is and that people are still designing in it, maybe he would allow an upgrade?

I just want the registry tweaks back on the latest version so i can see the bloody aprons! smile.gif all washed out!!

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#14 JAM0

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 09:52 PM

QUOTE (top1percent @ Dec 20 2011, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As a long time Pinball collector and VP user, I just recently tried FP. I gotta say I really enjoy all the original tables FP has to offer. However, like a lot of people here have stated, the physics in FP are definitely off a bit. Not that VP is perfect, but it is more accurate in my opinion. I certainly realize there's a difference between real pinball and Virtual Pinball as I have the luxury of playing the real game and the virtual version side by side of some tables. I enjoy both and have built 2 Virtual Pinball cabs to support my habit with plans and cabs already in place for 2 more. That being said, some of the FP tables are much better than others. I was playing Road Girls Revisited last night and almost forgot I was playing FP. It felt right and the shots from the flippers lined up accurately.

So, I guess I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between Road Girls Revisited and a lot of other tables. BBB and Iron Man (the 2 main reasons I decided to give FP a go) are beautiful tables and very impressive, but they suffer from some inaccurate physics. Is there a way for me as the user to copy the physics from one table to another via settings? Do the developers control the physics or is it just part of the software? If it's part of the software why would there be any difference between games?

I'll check out the guide posted earlier and see if that helps. I really hope so because the tables in FP are beautiful and the developers that create them and the VP tables are crazy talented and I really appreciate all of their efforts!

Agree, Road Girls Revisted has good FP flipper action. From just looking at it it seems like the flippers are set at a shallow angle. Still not easy to hit shots off a trapped ball, but has good aiming capabilities from a ball moving down the in-lanes.

#15 Arcade4

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:01 PM

With BBB and Addams Family I took my flippers and angled them both up 5 degrees.
Then I increased the strength on them to the second from the highest setting and the table seems to play much better for me now.
I was having a hard time hitting the rolling shots up the middle or up the ramp. No I can do it with ease and don't have to catch the ball every time.



#16 Maxis

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:36 AM

QUOTE (user42 @ Sep 15 2011, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't mind the physics in FP (once I figured out that the nudge is reversed). In fact there are some FP tables that I prefer to the VP versions. It is especially true for EM tables but even true on some newer tables, Xenon and Sharky's Shootout come to mind. The only problem with FP running SS tables is the lack of rom support, both of the previously mentioned tables are missing some sounds.... Is there any chance that someday someone will hack FP to have rom support or is that just a crazy pipe dream?



Rom support for FP is a WIP. dblthumb.gif

http://www.vpforums....ic=11525&st=160

#17 user42

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:39 PM

QUOTE (Maxis @ Feb 3 2012, 04:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Rom support for FP is a WIP. dblthumb.gif

http://www.vpforums....ic=11525&st=160



Awesome! otvclap.gif

#18 onlinechaos

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 12:35 AM

QUOTE (chivato @ Sep 14 2011, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was playing some future pinball this week and damm these ball physics are really worthless.
Have seen en played some great tables but the ball physics are ruine the gameplay.

So my question is are these physics ever gonna change?
And if not is it really worth it making all those great tables?


if you need real physics, you should buy yourself a real pinball machine and stop this senseless discussion.
when you are playing other videogames, are you also thinking every second about the physics and compare them to the real !?
nfs f.e. is lightyears away from real physics, but nevertheless it`s fun to play. so would you also say, the complete nfs series have no right to exist, or what ??
and what about all the ego shooters ? no real physics, no right to exist !?
you should accept, that it`s only a game and not a mirror of real life.
fp gives me the chance to play tables, i`ve never seen in real, so who cares about some minor physical issues.
really worthless is, to start this thread.

Edited by onlinechaos, 05 February 2012 - 12:43 AM.


#19 destruk

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 12:58 AM

I'm not sure what NFS F.E. is?
If you mean Need for Speed, then Porsche Unleashed was certified by Road and Track magazine as being as real as driving an actual Porsche.
From Wikipedia -- "The vehicle handling is considered the most realistic in any NFS game, and there is an in-depth catalogue of different Porsche parts that span throughout the years."

The physics system of Need for Speed Shift is based on the one used in Ferrari Project. Eero Piitulainen, who already had been involved in Richard Burns Rally, is said to have created a new physics model for the tires. The differences between the three physics levels are defined by the amount of steering assistance. The Professional Settings are supposed to be more accurate than GTR2 and require a steering wheel and pedals.

I think of all the games out there you can come up with a better example of faked physics than the NFS series, which is much closer to a real automobile.

btw - perhaps we don't want overly realistic physics in these pinball games. Nintendo has confirmed they routinely make their games "LESS REALISTIC" because playing tennis on the Wii with their motion controllers is no fun if it is realistic.
Most people suck at tennis, so by dumbing down the game requirements and making it less accurate, people are happier playing the game with the false impression that they are the best tennis player the world has ever seen.


So I guess the real trick is to eliminate obvious problems like a ball hitting a 45 degree surface and bouncing 180 degrees back the way it came - which happens a whole lot of the time in Future Pinball, while not going overboard with thousands of settings the average player can't understand how to use.
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#20 onlinechaos

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 11:12 AM

QUOTE (destruk @ Feb 5 2012, 01:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not sure what NFS F.E. is?
If you mean Need for Speed, then Porsche Unleashed was certified by Road and Track magazine as being as real as driving an actual Porsche.
From Wikipedia -- "The vehicle handling is considered the most realistic in any NFS game, and there is an in-depth catalogue of different Porsche parts that span throughout the years."

The physics system of Need for Speed Shift is based on the one used in Ferrari Project. Eero Piitulainen, who already had been involved in Richard Burns Rally, is said to have created a new physics model for the tires. The differences between the three physics levels are defined by the amount of steering assistance. The Professional Settings are supposed to be more accurate than GTR2 and require a steering wheel and pedals.

I think of all the games out there you can come up with a better example of faked physics than the NFS series, which is much closer to a real automobile.

btw - perhaps we don't want overly realistic physics in these pinball games. Nintendo has confirmed they routinely make their games "LESS REALISTIC" because playing tennis on the Wii with their motion controllers is no fun if it is realistic.
Most people suck at tennis, so by dumbing down the game requirements and making it less accurate, people are happier playing the game with the false impression that they are the best tennis player the world has ever seen.


So I guess the real trick is to eliminate obvious problems like a ball hitting a 45 degree surface and bouncing 180 degrees back the way it came - which happens a whole lot of the time in Future Pinball, while not going overboard with thousands of settings the average player can't understand how to use.


yes i`v meant * need for speed, for example* and it only should be an example and i hope you are joking, comparing nfs porsche cup, with driving a real porsche.
driving a real porsche is an adrenalin shock and a real adventure, no game will ever be able to give you the same feeling...
i took nfs as example, cause you can hit trees with 200 mph and you can still drive on, is that real physics ?
and your copy of the product description also suggest you a nearly real driving simulation. so what ?




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