27 replies to this topic

[blur]

Why proof of concept? Before going into something big and expensive I wanted to try this cab thing, to see if this cab mania is any good and to see if i will like it. I've already posted thread like this to hs forums. There is also a similar thread about pseudo cabs going on just now on vp forums. But this is something different. The idea is - i don't want to spend ANY money - but i want to play in a cab. How can i do that?

Here is the solution, you'll need one 16:9 screen, one normal 4:3 screen (or laptop), two keyboards and a cardbox:



So the idea is to put one wide screen and laptop (or any 4:3 screen) in a box with two keyboards on the sides for flipper keys. Connect keyboards to the box with duct tape. It is important to have keyboards on the sides (or buttons if you have them) and not on a desk cause side buttons are more natural for pinball then desktop keyboard or even gamepad. Gamepad is by far most awkward and is not good for playing pinball (but gamepad can be great source for pinball controller).

Advantages of side keyboards to desktop keyboard are so huge i could not believe it. The fact that you are standing (yea, yea, i also thought standing stinks, but when you try it you won't sit and play pinball ever again, it's just part of the whole experience, you just can't sit, it's not the same), holding your hands on corners of that box you call cab, like you are making a speech, and slapping your fingers on buttons (or keyboard keys) on the sides of the cab, like on real pinball, makes this experience much much more real and much more enjoyable than sitting in front of the screen and playing with shift keys. Just rotating wide screen on your desktop pc is definitely not up to it (i tried it also). Who ever did not tried it yet should try.

Hitting flippers is much easier, and more intuitive, i used middle finger for flippers (numpad 0 and left alt) and ring finger for nudging (left ctrl and numpad ./,). Both fingers are over the keys and ready all the time and i play and nudge with more precision and timing then on desktop.

I wondered if experience will be real - it is, you feel just like on real pinball - layback view adds to reality very much - you see only top of the flippers when you look from above just like on real pin. The fact that on 16:9 screens playfield is very long and you see what is happening with the ball is also much better then desktop up your face view where you feel like you are looking at pin from flippers level.

I used box which i got with lcd. I put styrofoam which also came with lcd, under the box to lift it up a little to normal standing height - btw what is normal height of pins, how high from the ground should the flippers be?

There is only one cable going into the box - all other cables are inside (power for monitor, power for laptop, two keyboard cables). I can connect this box to my T61 laptop or to any of kid's computers (with another 4:3 lcd that i have around).

So next step will be some buttons and making a keyboard or gamepad controller. Then maybe some wooden cab with lockdown bar and siderails, then doors, then legs, then gamepad nudge (when vp allows it), then gamepad plunger and so on - all of this will be dirt cheap and home built, stay tuned

Can't wait .

Edited by blur, 24 March 2012 - 09:07 AM.

[vidmouse]

when I am done w/ my mini pin I will have to
add up what it cost but it isn't much...

good luck with yours, I'll be watching!

[Bob5453]

Pinball in a box. A little Elmer's glue, construction paper and some glitter and you're ready to go.

[settingsons]

That is a great setup blur to give you that real cab feel. Doesn't it make massive difference - the first time I experienced it I was blown away and knew that one day I would have to build a virtual cabinet. Good luck with it - you have contributed a lot of great stuff to the community so now it time to give a gift to yourself

Edited by settingsons, 30 April 2011 - 10:14 AM.

[unclewilly]

Aside from the monitors my cab didn't cost anything but the screws and metal angle pieces for the edges. I built it from the wood from an old stereo cabinet and used the buttons and keyboard encoder from an old x arcade controller

[blur]

tnx guys
i have to admit. i bought wide screen 22" 16:9 lcd just to put it in a cab, so the cost is not 0 but somewhere around $200 for now (so i'm guilty as charged )
and yes settingsons i was really blown away when i first started playing with keyboards on sides
Actually i wanted to buy some buttons right from the start and put it in a wood cage, but then thousands of questions, where to buy parts, some known pinball seller (which usually have high delivery cost to eu) or some zero delivery seller but with zero pinball experience like deal extreme. What to buy leaf switch or micro switch. Another question was controller - what to use some old keyboard or gamepad. Keyboard is more compatible cause keys will work out of the box, but how to find what to connect for shifts, what for 1, 5, enter. Gamepad is easier to connect but you have to use joy2key to transfer buttons to keys, ...
So to cut questions short, i remembered, hey i have two T41 external laptop keyboards laying around, why not put it to some use, and here is the result Those keyboards are really great for this purpose cause they have thin shallow keys and they have big flat surface in front of the keys. Great for resting fingers on it.
Any way those questions will come back to me some day. I did not escape them
As for blowing away - feeling is so great that i started converting some tables that don't have any FS version - like Pink Panther and Time Line. I even made UVP for them. These tables are from my time, and i love playing tables from my time - which i played in a pinball club near by when i was a kid.
BTW - does any body know where i can find gottlieb manuals? I need uvp lamp id's.

Edited by blur, 30 April 2011 - 12:55 PM.

[rosve]

tnx guys
i have to admit. i bought wide screen 22" 16:9 lcd just to put it in a cab, so the cost is not 0 but somewhere around $200 for now (so i'm guilty as charged )
and yes settingsons i was really blown away when i first started playing with keyboards on sides
Actually i wanted to buy some buttons right from the start and put it in a wood cage, but then thousands of questions, where to buy parts, some known pinball seller (which usually have high delivery cost to eu) or some zero delivery seller but with zero pinball experience like deal extreme. What to buy leaf switch or micro switch. Another question was controller - what to use some old keyboard or gamepad. Keyboard is more compatible cause keys will work out of the box, but how to find what to connect for shifts, what for 1, 5, enter. Gamepad is easier to connect but you have to use joy2key to transfer buttons to keys, ...
So to cut questions short, i remembered, hey i have two T41 external laptop keyboards laying around, why not put it to some use, and here is the result Those keyboards are really great for this purpose cause they have thin shallow keys and they have big flat surface in front of the keys. Great for resting fingers on it.
Any way those questions will come back to me some day. I did not escape them
As for blowing away - feeling is so great that i started converting some tables that don't have any FS version - like Pink Panther and Time Line. I even made UVP for them. These tables are from my time, and i love playing tables from my time - which i played in a pinball club near by when i was a kid.
BTW - does any body know where i can find gottlieb manuals? I need uvp lamp id's.

Regarding where to buy buttons. This is a great site that I am using when building Arcade or Pin cabinets.
ArcadeShop

[blur]

Here are some news about my Proof of concept min cab build - or how i call it - Paper cab

First thing i did was ordering 8 yellow buttons from deal extreme for less then a dollar per piece with free delivery:


Later i found even cheaper buttons with price of 37 cents per piece (delivery is not free) - but i will leave them for a mame cab:

http://www.arcadespa...33mm/13138.html

First thing my kids said when they tried my new yellow buttons was not "gee this is great", or "gee these buttons rule" - no, it was - "gee these buttons are so hard" . And yes they were much harder to press then keyboard. And i think they were harder then normal pinball buttons on pinballs i used to play as a kid (gottlieb 80's).

So to make them soft i opened them and removed spring from the center - now they were very smooth and soft.

But still there was something i didn't liked about these buttons - they were not shaped like traditional happ buttons. They were concave, but they had "sharp" edges that i didn't like. I wanted rounded happ edges with soft buttons - something like this:


So after thinking where to buy it I saw that Noah recently started to sell leaf switches and buttons on virtuapin so i ordered a few for my paper cab.

They arrived last week and i installed them this weekend.
I must say they are very soft and smooth, just like in real pinballs, since there is very weak spring inside the buttons, and leaf switch almost has no resistance at all.
They have nice rounded corners that i wanted, and they look and feel like real pinball buttons (leaf switches were always used in real pinballs).

They are a bit more expensive (6 dollars per piece) but they are worth it if you want that real feeling. And you need only few of them. Actually two of them is enough to make great improvement. All other buttons can be whatever.

I expected some problems with contacts getting on and off - like some people (faralos ) reported they have with leafs - but no - they work great, once contact is made they stay in contact without any problems, and i didn't even have to tune them after delivery - they came great out of the box.

When kids first played with these new buttons - they didn't say anything. I thought, uff it's ok. At least they are not complaining like with first yellow buttons. Kids are difficult testers .
Then they said buttons are great and they like it. They even found out that they can rotate them around - which you couldn't do with other buttons

So my suggestion to all - ditch your hard happ buttons and try one of these. You'll be surprised.

More pictures coming soon, don't expect much from pictures - it is still paper cab, no wooden box yet

Edited by blur, 20 September 2011 - 01:01 PM.

[blur]

Here are some images with yellow deal extreme buttons, and hacked gamepad used to connect buttons. I must say any buttons are better then keyboard - no more explaining to every body - look this is numeric 0 - that is one flipper, this is alt - it is second flipper, ... Every thing is clear one button flipper, the other nudge. And in front - from left to right are Exit, Insert Coin, Start game and Plunger.


One leaf switch button installed, look at difference in height, yellow is shallow, white is tall, but actually they have same activation path.
As you can see from second picture - leaf is very close so button activates after you push it few mm. Actually it is active when button is only half pressed.
And on first picture you can see how leaf button is rounded on corners and yellow button is sharp.

On last picture is my beta tester's auto portrait

And finally second button installed (it is nudge button - which is why it is red - you can't nudge much, it's dangerous ):

If you are wondering why is this yellow paper on corners under the hands - well it is there cause it feels better under the hands then duct tape. With duct tape hands sweat too much.

Edited by blur, 21 September 2011 - 01:47 PM.

[settingsons]

Looking good blur. Using the cardboard/paper is a really good way to get a feel for the cab, visualise it and make adjustments easily before you commit the design to wood. I did a similar thing before I did my pincab build, and the same for the mame bartop I am just about finishing now.

Sounds like the buttons make all the difference - and like you say the originals will do for the mamecab

Looking forward to seeing more - I guess you just about ready to order for wood soon ????

Edited by settingsons, 21 September 2011 - 08:36 PM.

[numiah]

lol @ the beta tester.
Yep, everybody needs one.
And what could be better then a kid testing things.
If it survives that, it will survive anything !

[blur]

yeah did you see what kids did to hacker ))

mine are not so wild

settingsons wood will be soon but maybe before i will try to:
- turn joystick upside down and try use x/y axis for nudge with custom compiled vp
- release new fplaunch with menus
- release fix for vp source that will enable pbw button remapping

tough schedule

Edited by blur, 21 September 2011 - 09:29 PM.

[Pintrepid]

Thanks for this thread, blur! That looks so cool!

It really hits home with me at this time because I'm doing something very similar right now. The funds have arrived ... I better just make it happen right now before something else takes the funds away!

Dell GX620 Pent 4 Dual Core 3.0GHz / 1 GB RAM / 80 GB HD / 17" LCD 4:3 monitor = $157.00.
HP S2031 20" WS Moinitor 1600x900 = $ 97.00

Total: $ 254.00 (+TX & S&H)

For now, this will work out very nicely on the tabletop as a "Poor Man's" FS B2S setup. It will allow me to play pball as it's meant to be! Can't wait to play Starman's Fireball, or JP's Mata Hari, or Flash ... just to name a couple off the top o my head.

Of course, after awhile, I'll just have to do something about making a cabinet for it! That's inevitable!

-PeterMac

[druadic]

Thanks for this thread, blur! That looks so cool!

It really hits home with me at this time because I'm doing something very similar right now. The funds have arrived ... I better just make it happen right now before something else takes the funds away!

Dell GX620 Pent 4 Dual Core 3.0GHz / 1 GB RAM / 80 GB HD / 17" LCD 4:3 monitor = $157.00.
HP S2031 20" WS Moinitor 1600x900 = $ 97.00

Total: $ 254.00 (+TX & S&H)

For now, this will work out very nicely on the tabletop as a "Poor Man's" FS B2S setup. It will allow me to play pball as it's meant to be! Can't wait to play Starman's Fireball, or JP's Mata Hari, or Flash ... just to name a couple off the top o my head.

Of course, after awhile, I'll just have to do something about making a cabinet for it! That's inevitable!

-PeterMac

Saving money is always awesome. I just bought my "micro" computer (PowerSpec N670) on Ebay for $101 WITH ship. Got a 15 inch flat panel monitor from another town for $35. TOTAL: $136.00. using a bathroom mirror cabinet for the actual cab. Cost = FREE. Had this. Bought 12 yellow mustard WICO buttons on Ebay for $15.89 shipped. So far now the cost is $141.89. Need a few leaf switches from Noah so I'll have to buy some of those. I have some Compaq mini speakers that were given to me for free by a friend that will work nicely in the cabinet. So the total cost is around $165.00 - that's it.

Here's a pic of my "micro" computer that will be used in my mini cab. The machine is 9 inches long, 8 inches from front to back and 1 1/2 inches tall. 2 GHz Intel Core Duo, 3 GB RAM and 60GB hard disk. Uses DVI video. Machine is VERY FAST

Cheers!

Will
aka druadic

[blur]

yeah did you see what kids did to hacker ))

mine are not so wild

settingsons wood will be soon but maybe before i will try to:
- turn joystick upside down and try use x/y axis for nudge with custom compiled vp
- release new fplaunch with menus
- release fix for vp source that will enable pbw button remapping

tough schedule

Tnx for comments guys, druadic that pc looks great - it would even fit my paper cab.

About my schedule, most of it is finished, and probably all will be finished soon:

- turn joystick upside down and try use x/y axis for nudge with custom compiled vp -> did some tests before but with slow compile of vp, will try again soon
- release new fplaunch with menus -> released, another version will be out soon with some win7 bugs fixed (focus), and after that probably another version with high scores
- release fix for vp source that will enable pbw button remapping -> not done - but really it's not so important any more cause on hs forums we have great compile from koadic which has ALL BUTTONS DISABLED and xy are nudge and z is plunger, so you can use any joystick and ANY BUTTON, but you have to map buttons with xpadder first (that's what i do already)

Edited by blur, 20 March 2012 - 03:43 PM.

[druadic]

yeah did you see what kids did to hacker ))

mine are not so wild

settingsons wood will be soon but maybe before i will try to:
- turn joystick upside down and try use x/y axis for nudge with custom compiled vp
- release new fplaunch with menus
- release fix for vp source that will enable pbw button remapping

tough schedule

Tnx for comments guys, druadic that pc looks great - it would even fit my paper cab.

About my schedule, most of it is finished, and probably all will be finished soon:

- turn joystick upside down and try use x/y axis for nudge with custom compiled vp -> did some tests before but with slow compile of vp, will try again soon
- release new fplaunch with menus -> released, another version will be out soon with some win7 bugs fixed (focus), and after that probably another version with high scores
- release fix for vp source that will enable pbw button remapping -> not done - but really it's not so important any more cause on hs forums we have great compile from koadic which has ALL BUTTONS DISABLED and xy are nudge and z is plunger, so you can use any joystick and ANY BUTTON, but you have to map buttons with xpadder first (that's what i do already)

PS: You know instead of using whole keyboards, why not try USB keypads (the ones with the numbers 1 - 0 on them? I can get quite a few of these cheap. I may just do that. I also have a Gravis Gamepad (the first digital one) which I bought for a single dollar. A little soldering and it can be used in numerous ways. (Is a four button and has the left/right settings for left o right game players). I'll have to see what I want to do first. If I come across ANYTHING that is cheap and folks want something I'll be more than happy to help somehow for those folks out there that have little cash but want a decent running cab of their own.

Chow!

Will
druadic

I also have a sewing machine cabinet from the 50's which I just may use for the cab. It's either that or the bathroom mirror cabinet which will perfectly fit a 17 inch flat panel monitor in it. We'll just have to wait and see. The sewing machine cabinet actually flips open. I just have to add an underside piece of wood. Already has a plug hole so that's there. Ahhhhh, the possibilities are absolutely endless.

[Itchigo]

I built it from the wood from an old stereo cabinet and used the buttons and keyboard encoder from an old x arcade controller

UW, are you SURE we're not related? lmao!

Attached Files

•  Kenwood_Pinball.JPG   18.17KB   73 downloads

Edited by Itchigo, 16 May 2012 - 11:04 PM.

[faralos]

hey I still use my years old Gravis Gamepad Pro
not for vp though but for other online games
and a neat idea would be for the kids to maybe do some artwork
of their own on the sides of the cardboard cab to hide the duct tape if nothing else!
paints markers even paper cutouts would work
hmm next thing is maybe a plastic beer cooler modded into a cab?
just a thought...

[Osprey101]

But still there was something i didn't liked about these buttons - they were not shaped like traditional happ buttons. They were concave, but they had "sharp" edges that i didn't like. I wanted rounded happ edges with soft buttons - something like this:


So after thinking where to buy it I saw that Noah recently started to sell leaf switches and buttons on virtuapin so i ordered a few for my paper cab.

They arrived last week and i installed them this weekend.
I must say they are very soft and smooth, just like in real pinballs, since there is very weak spring inside the buttons, and leaf switch almost has no resistance at all.
They have nice rounded corners that i wanted, and they look and feel like real pinball buttons (leaf switches were always used in real pinballs).

They are a bit more expensive (6 dollars per piece) but they are worth it if you want that real feeling. And you need only few of them. Actually two of them is enough to make great improvement. All other buttons can be whatever.

OK, I am late coming to this thread.
Not to knock Noah's products but....
6 bucks for a button, switch assembly, and nut, is too much.
Check out pbresource.com
Two different lengths to choose from for those same buttons and most of them are $1.30 or less.
The switch assemblies are $2.00, and the locknut is $0.25
http://pbresource.com/buttons.html

Those of us that fix/own real machines know where to find real parts, real cheap.

[sternrulez]

Although I'm new to this forum, I'm no stranger to vpin...I became fascinated with it all the way back in 1983 with a program called "Pinball Construction Set" for the Apple II. I've been kicking around the idea of adding MAME and Vpin units to my home for over a year now, but I didn't want to spend hundreds on skeleton cabs much less thousands on complete cabs, so imagine my elation when I happened upon this post!

Blur, it's you that I've chosen to thank first..you've done an incredible job on your unit and it was because of you that the aged hamsters in my head started turning the rusty wheels...lol! I do have a question for you before I continue though: Did you run VP off the laptop in the back and if so how did you get dual screen output? I'm able to do that on the PC I'm using to write this, but only because of the graphics card, and I'm not aware of any lappy with the possible exception of something high-end that allows this. However, if you used 2 PCs for the dual screens, how did you sync the backglass with the table? Sorry to nitpick but I'm curious...

I'd also like to thank Itchigo...not necessarily for what you posted but rather your pic of the arcade button setup on the cart. That has gotten me thinking about a sitdown MAME setup that I'll detail in a bit. Thank you also to Osprey101 for your tip about where to get a really good deal on buttons Finally, thanks to the rest of you who replied to this thread as well...it looks like I've found a really good and responsive group of people to help when needed.

SO...on to my grand plan. It's obviously only in the planning stage at this point, but I'd like to share some things that may help others. First, Newegg has really good buys on PC products. They have numerous 22" LCDs that start as low as $130 with free shipping: http://www.newegg.co...mp;Pagesize=100 . I've purchased numerous items from them over the years including the 24" monitor that I'm using now. Don't let the generic names fool you. The monitor I'm using is a "Hanns-G" that I paid $160 for over 2 years ago and it has one of the nicest displays I've ever seen, so I highly recommend them for PC parts. I've also ordered items from Deal Extreme and they are another great company to work with...granted they probably have little to no pin experience but their customer service is top notch!

With that out of the way, here is my initial plan for the 2 cabs:

VPin table

-------cab/box: My friend works at his father's Hauling/Salvage business so he can get me all kinds of pieces of wood for constructing a "permanent cab" but for now I'm going to follow Blur's idea and use the box from the flatscreen...price $free
---------table display: one of the 22" models from Newegg...haven't decided which one yet...price $130
---------backglass: I have a smaller LCD from a PC that I used to use that's still in A-1 condition...price $free
---------PC "guts": Once again my friend is coming to the rescue...they get an incredible amount of towers and laptops that they throw away weekly...I've already been "Lazarus" for a few of them, so I'm certain I'll be able to scavage together parts to fill the bill....price $free
--------USB cables: I have more of these lying around than I care to even think about ...price $free
--------buttons: I'm going to take Osprey's suggestion and pick up my buttons from pbresource. I want to have a setup like Blur's updated pics so I'll be looking at 8 buttons for this build...price ~ $30 (not including shipping)
--------legs (which I may or may not use once I put the permant cab together): Again I'll look to my friend for these if necessary...price $free
--------side graphics for cab: I'll worry about that when I get there...lol! Price $?

Total estimated cost of build=========> ~$160

MAME "cocktail" cab

--------cab: My friend finds tons of microwave carts, entertainment stands etc, so... Price $free
--------display: see above...price $130
---------PC "guts": see above...price $free
---------USB cales: see above---price $free
---------buttons: Not really sure on this, as I'd like a setup similar to an Xarcade Tankstick: http://www.xgaming.c...des-usb-cables/ so I'm looking at 18 buttons, trackball, spinner, 2 8-ways joys and a 4-way joy. I need to start shopping for prices on all of them so I'm hoping the prices will be less than the $200 sticker on the unit from Xarcade. As a sidenote, I need to figure out how to hook up all of these buttons into USB inputs...any help on that would be appreciated but I haven't really searched yet either so I could be asking an already-answered question.. Price $? (~$67.50 for the buttons from pbresource unless I can find a "bulk" price that is cheaper
---------side graphics: $TBD

Total initial cost================$~197.50 plus additional cost of MAME controls.

I thought about combining the 2 cabs into one as that would be a great savings overall....I wouldn't need a 2nd monitor for the MAME display and could shave $130 off the price by using the rear monitor for the MAME display. Also, I would combine the flipper/nudge buttons into the sides of the arcade control box that I can build (once again free), and place Blur's coin and plunger buttons in front. More later as I progress, and thanks for reading!