40 replies to this topic

[VampyreLegion]

checking that thread out now..

[uberpinball]

And even with the thread linked by uberpinball above, I have improved upon it even more that those more recent posts.

 

I'm assuming the Kiss pinball I tossed over to you has this latest code?

 

I will be working on that tonight.

[koadic]

Yeah, what I uploaded isn't a full table though, you will need to use it to modify your copy.

[uberpinball]

Yeah, what I uploaded isn't a full table though, you will need to use it to modify your copy.

 Yea, I understood that

 

I have no issues updating the table/code, Thanks again.

[uberpinball]

Setting the gain settings to 0% effectively disables the accelerometer in Visual Pinball, so I would suggest leaving it around 150% for calibration. Is there any way you can just tilt your board and try to get the ball to roll around, that way we know the directional settings are correct? We can always rotate/flip/change axes if needed.For comparison, here are my raw values from DXTweak formatted as Min/Center/Max...X Axis 1597/1997/2397 (-400/0/400)Y Axis 1698/2098/2498 (-400/0/400)My gain settings in VPinball are about 400%.

Ok. The key to success is hitting the +gain -gain in the difference between min and center...and...center and max. So if you start calibrating with pref>keys of 400% gain for x and y, in DXTweak you need to have min + 400 = center and max - 400 = center. This is key and is what koadic was pointing out in his settings (-400/0/400).

Now to get my ball to sit perfectly still on the 0 slope table I had to introduce 1% deadzone because the ball would react to the slightest twitching of the x/y movement that naturally occurs in the accelerometer. You see this in DXTweak as the needles bouncing ever so slightly for x/y axis.

Now the disappointing part. The non-standard table code for nudging.
- If I open Gorgar with my nudge settings, the table will tilt on the slightest nudge even with the tilt setting in pref>keys set to 100.
- if I open Kiss with my nudge settings, the table doesnt react at all to nudges.
- Attack from Mars ...nothing.

So really, depending on the table...do you really have to adjust the table settings in VP for each table to optimize?

I must be missing something because there is no way ppl sift through a 100 tables, fine tuning each one...do they?

Frustrated.

[lizard]

I delete the nudge code in every table script as i load a table onto my cabinet and it gives you a more consistant nudge. I dont know if it is meant to make a difference to the analogue nudge but deleting it certainly works for me.

[uberpinball]

I delete the nudge code in every table script as i load a table onto my cabinet and it gives you a more consistant nudge. I dont know if it is meant to make a difference to the analogue nudge but deleting it certainly works for me.

Not in front of VP right now, but is the nudge code usually sectioned off so it can be easily found and deleted?

[lizard]

Yeah most of the tables have it sectioned off , open the script and then go to edit then find and type in nudge  i leave these lines

 

     'Nudging

     vpmNudge.TiltSwitch=6
     vpmNudge.Sensitivity=1
     vpmNudge.TiltObj=Array(Bumper1b,Bumper2b,Bumper3b,LeftSlingshot,RightSlingshot)

 

and then rem out lines like these in the keys section

 

   'If keycode = LeftTiltKey Then LeftNudge 80, 1, 20
   'If keycode = RightTiltKey Then RightNudge 280, 1, 20
   'If keycode = CenterTiltKey Then CenterNudge 0, 1, 25

 

Then delete the following or simmilar ,  i have found most tables have this type some of the EMs are a little different. 

 

   '*************************************
  '          Nudge System
  ' JP's based on Noah's nudgetest table
  '*************************************
 
  Dim LeftNudgeEffect, RightNudgeEffect, NudgeEffect
 
  Sub LeftNudge(angle, strength, delay)
      vpmNudge.DoNudge angle, (strength * (delay-LeftNudgeEffect) / delay) + RightNudgeEffect / delay
      LeftNudgeEffect = delay
      RightNudgeEffect = 0
      RightNudgeTimer.Enabled = 0
      LeftNudgeTimer.Interval = delay
      LeftNudgeTimer.Enabled = 1
  End Sub
 
  Sub RightNudge(angle, strength, delay)
      vpmNudge.DoNudge angle, (strength * (delay-RightNudgeEffect) / delay) + LeftNudgeEffect / delay
      RightNudgeEffect = delay
      LeftNudgeEffect = 0
      LeftNudgeTimer.Enabled = 0
      RightNudgeTimer.Interval = delay
      RightNudgeTimer.Enabled = 1
  End Sub
 
  Sub CenterNudge(angle, strength, delay)
      vpmNudge.DoNudge angle, strength * (delay-NudgeEffect) / delay
      NudgeEffect = delay
      NudgeTimer.Interval = delay
      NudgeTimer.Enabled = 1
  End Sub
 
  Sub LeftNudgeTimer_Timer()
      LeftNudgeEffect = LeftNudgeEffect-1
      If LeftNudgeEffect = 0 then LeftNudgeTimer.Enabled = 0
  End Sub
 
  Sub RightNudgeTimer_Timer()
      RightNudgeEffect = RightNudgeEffect-1
      If RightNudgeEffect = 0 then RightNudgeTimer.Enabled = 0
  End Sub
 
  Sub NudgeTimer_Timer()
      NudgeEffect = NudgeEffect-1
      If NudgeEffect = 0 then NudgeTimer.Enabled = 0
  End Sub

[uberpinball]

Yeah most of the tables have it sectioned off , open the script and then go to edit then find and type in nudge  i leave these lines
 
     'Nudging
     vpmNudge.TiltSwitch=6
     vpmNudge.Sensitivity=1
     vpmNudge.TiltObj=Array(Bumper1b,Bumper2b,Bumper3b,LeftSlingshot,RightSlingshot)
 
and then rem out lines like these in the keys section
 
   'If keycode = LeftTiltKey Then LeftNudge 80, 1, 20
   'If keycode = RightTiltKey Then RightNudge 280, 1, 20
   'If keycode = CenterTiltKey Then CenterNudge 0, 1, 25
 
Then delete the following or simmilar ,  i have found most tables have this type some of the EMs are a little different. 

...

 

Interesting. This looks like digital nudge code because the keycode statements(button presses) so I'm not sure if the analog nudge, which is actually setup in the table properties code, calls out to those sub routines you posted in your example. Be interesting to put some logging or 'light on' code in those subs so you can see them being called when you physically nudge.

[VampyreLegion]

^ does deleting any of the script like that speed up the tables, since it has less code to run?

[uberpinball]

^ does deleting any of the script like that speed up the tables, since it has less code to run?

 

Not sure what speed up the tables means in this case. The tables performance? Like no stuttering? That normally is always based on your 1) Video card and resolution it's trying to push and your CPU. If speed it up means the pace of the ball, that can be controlled by insreasing the table slope or gravity so that gravity physics rolls the ball down the playfield faster.

 

Removing the nudging code won't help. This code is triggered by pressing a button and not related to the 'running' table. Really the only code that can help spped up tables in general is the VP core code, like the 9.15 with the upgrade to DX9. Not a expert on the VP code, but if DX9 is incorporated correctly the tables will speed up due to the offloading of processing to the DX9 engine.

 

Hope that helps.

[VampyreLegion]

Thanks for the answer..

When I say "speed up" i mean the whole deal from video to table processing, since it has less code to go through, I know this is button related, but it still has to check to see if that nudge button was press.

 

Kind of like lamptimers, if you increase them slightly you gain FPS on some of the tables, because it does not have to process that sub routine as much.

[uberpinball]

Thanks for the answer..

When I say "speed up" i mean the whole deal from video to table processing, since it has less code to go through, I know this is button related, but it still has to check to see if that nudge button was press.

 

Kind of like lamptimers, if you increase them slightly you gain FPS on some of the tables, because it does not have to process that sub routine as much.

 

I see your point now. As with any event processing code, if you just remove the if statements that are looking for the keycode, the actual event that fires in VP for the key won't have anything to do if you remove that code. So in theory, you're saving processing but because those key events fire anyways(unless you actuall removed the event triggers in VP), that if code executes so fast it wouldn't improve performance to remove it. And those subs are really just setting properties and there is no real decsion logic that could take up cycles. If you actually could turn off the listeners to the key events you won't use, like nudge buttons, that would positively impact the tables.

[VampyreLegion]

^ Thanks!

So how does one remove the listeners for keyboard nudge input? Is that something in core.vbs

[uberpinball]

^ Thanks!

So how does one remove the listeners for keyboard nudge input? Is that something in core.vbs

Sorry for the delay on a response. If you want to remove event listeners, you are talking VP core builds(like Koadic works on). I wouldn't see that being very fesible or necessary. If you are trying to speed up a table by removing core code, I think it's time to look at improving hardware...the easier path.

 

If you decided to dig into the VP code, you would have to maintain your own version of VP and keep up with version releases from the VP community.

 

If you want, toss me the table(s) with issues and what your current CPU, Ram, and Video card specs are.

[ArcadiusMaximus]

Hi All,

 

koadic, I sent you this as a pm then I came across this thread. I put my problem in here as well incase anyone else is experiencing simmilar issues.

 

  A buddy and I were trying to adjust my nudging the other night and we were running into a strange issue. We loaded up the flat table and began our adjustments via dxtweak. For some reason the ball wouldn't move smoothly in any direction. Even after my friend made adjustments the ball would jitter/ stutter as it moved.

  Right now my board is mounted on my playfield monitor frame right under the cabinets palm rest. If I take the board off its mount and slowly tilt it forward, at a certain angle it will stop jittering. Has anyone else experienced this stuttering ball movement? Im leaning towards a power or sheilding issue but curious as to what others think.

[uberpinball]

Hi All,

 

koadic, I sent you this as a pm then I came across this thread. I put my problem in here as well incase anyone else is experiencing simmilar issues.

 

  A buddy and I were trying to adjust my nudging the other night and we were running into a strange issue. We loaded up the flat table and began our adjustments via dxtweak. For some reason the ball wouldn't move smoothly in any direction. Even after my friend made adjustments the ball would jitter/ stutter as it moved.

  Right now my board is mounted on my playfield monitor frame right under the cabinets palm rest. If I take the board off its mount and slowly tilt it forward, at a certain angle it will stop jittering. Has anyone else experienced this stuttering ball movement? Im leaning towards a power or sheilding issue but curious as to what others think.

 

That seems like the board accel chip is picking up vibrations from a tv fan or something?

 

I'll tell you what, you can keep fiddling with it but after I took at least 2 weeks of time in calibrating this thing, i tossed in the towel.

 

But i'll give you a few numbers to use if you want to try and get your board right.

 

1) Make sure you don't have the x and y Axis to tight in DXTweak. By this i mean...make sure you are at least 300-500 from center each way. So if X Axis mid is 2000, the min should be 1500 and max 2500. The same for the Y axis. The closer you get to mid, the tighter and less forgiving the nudge is. if it's to tight, the chip will start to fight itself causing the jitters and ball wandering.

 

2) in VP, go to Pref>Keys and check your gains and deadzones. I'm at 500% for x and y, and a 3% deadzone. The deadzone will give the ball a buffer before it acts to a nudge.

 

The issues i find are that the ball reacts incorrectly to nudges. If i nudge on the left...the ball will move right. If I nudge on the right...the ball will move right. I have no clue why this is happening and i'm pretty much done trying to implement analog nudge with this PBW board.

Edited by uberpinball, 08 April 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[Slydog43]

The ball should move right when you nudge a table right.  You are moving the playfield under the ball, so in effect you are moving the ball in the same direction as you nudge.

[ArcadiusMaximus]

Thanks for your reply. I should of noted that before we atempted to get nudging right I had to have a dead zone of about 5%. This forced me to set my gains super high to register a nudge, but I had no ball stutter. I did this as a temporary solution casue I got tired of pissing with the thing while other more important things still needed to be complete on my cabinet.

 

I too have the problems with nudges registering the incorrect direction which is why Im attempting to fix it manually. I think this has to do with the wrong values being read in windows calibration for the device and having a dead zone set in VP. It is my understanding that if you have everything thing correctly configured, you do not need a dead zone. Thats what I am trying to achieve.

Edited by ArcadiusMaximus, 08 April 2013 - 03:05 PM.

[uberpinball]

The ball should move right when you nudge a table right.  You are moving the playfield under the ball, so in effect you are moving the ball in the same direction as you nudge.

i understand that. what is happening for me is when i nudge right, ball rolls right. if i then nudge left, the ball moves right more! never goes left.