39 replies to this topic

[Gamester]

So great news! Neil Sorens, creative director for Zen Studios just popped onto the Arcade Forums and replied to my Star Wars pincab build thread! He indicates that they are interested in investigating possible support for RussDX's PinDMD, multiple monitors and even LEDWiz (force feedback) down the road.

I think what they will need now is help from the community on integrating support for these into their product(s).

I think this is a great opportunity to grow the hobby!

 

Here's the link to his post if anyone's interested.

 

EDIT: Just to qualify the above, and hopefully derail any conspiracy theories that the post wasn't legitimately from Zen...I can confirm it was legitimate, as I had already been in contact with Mel Kirk, Zen's VP of Marketing for over a week before I started my build thread, and also received an email from both Mel and Neil Sorens that same evening that Neil made the post.

Edited by Gamester, 21 February 2013 - 06:45 PM.

[Aurich]

That makes what, 3 companies saying they'd consider cab support?

[Gamester]

Now we just need them to follow through...    

 

I think the key will be 1) making sure we keep voicing our desire to see this happen, and 2) offering them any community support they need for getting the technical aspects of it implemented.

[rob046]

This 'sounds' great to cab owners, I'm sure.  But let's not forgot that nobody has even released a proper PC version yet!  Let alone one with cab support.  First things first, just get a damn PC version of these games out!  & no, I don't count the crap win8 version of FX2 as a proper PC version.

I do worry these guys just want to placate everybody.  On paper they always seem to say they are going to do everything that people want, but how much of that actually gets done, who knows.  Its tough with cabinet support & them spending too much time on something like that.

 

Why?  Because you guys pay the same for the game as everybody else.  There really isn't much benefit to them to have anything more than just a very vanilla portrait mode.  On these forums I know cabs seem like the greatest thing since sliced bread, but outside these forums nobody has even heard of them.  It is a niche part of an already niche hobby within a niche hobby!

I hope they do all this stuff, but I'm not getting my hopes up about anything until I actually see a release date from somebody on a proper PC version.

[Pinballwiz45b]

Now have them get onto Steam (Greenlight) so I can enjoy more tables.

[The Loafer]

This 'sounds' great to cab owners, I'm sure.  But let's not forgot that nobody has even released a proper PC version yet!  Let alone one with cab support.  First things first, just get a damn PC version of these games out!  & no, I don't count the crap win8 version of FX2 as a proper PC version.

I do worry these guys just want to placate everybody.  On paper they always seem to say they are going to do everything that people want, but how much of that actually gets done, who knows.  Its tough with cabinet support & them spending too much time on something like that.

 

Why?  Because you guys pay the same for the game as everybody else.  There really isn't much benefit to them to have anything more than just a very vanilla portrait mode.  On these forums I know cabs seem like the greatest thing since sliced bread, but outside these forums nobody has even heard of them.  It is a niche part of an already niche hobby within a niche hobby!

I hope they do all this stuff, but I'm not getting my hopes up about anything until I actually see a release date from somebody on a proper PC version.

 

Well, my guess is "cab users" will pay a premium for some of these upcoming upgrades to the PC versions, I'm sure they won't do it just for kicks unless on their staff, there's a couple of pincab fans eheh.

 

From what Farsight has posted, they want to release their stuff on PC real bad, they are losing money by not selling these tables (and in some cases as we know with the kickstarters, they've had to pay licensing up front!), but as you know from other Steam threads here, its not so easy. They WANT to put it up, but licensing agreements forbids them from releasing on PC without some solid DRM, so they are where they are.  I do hope they start looking at other distribution channels though, but I suspect they want Steam because its the big man on the digital download campus.

 

No idea why Zen focuses on Win 8 appstore, but I suspect as an early adopter (they were even installed with the win8 beta), they probably got a juicy cut in the appstore percentage via a timed exclusive.  Probably a bad decision but I do think I read they plan a standard PC version sometime this year so here's hopeing we can all enjoy these great programs on whatever platform we choose.

[MTPPC]

pfffft... vaporware!

[ollium]

Sounds great...I love the zen tables

[ClarkKent]

Money and most of all greed is a real bitch...

[Zablon]

Game companies can't really be trusted these days. They promise the moon and really only develop for the greatest common denominator and are bound by unrealistic timelines and budgets. We are asking for something that there are likely less than a 1000 sales for. Consoles are what are being developed for, and PC is usually an afterthought.  That's quite a bit of dev time for very little payback even if they do charge a premium for it. Even if they do that, what if the tables suck or are buggy? A few people buy them, spread the word and the rest skip it, then they've really lost out. I know "I AM" not going to just put money out there just because they release it. I have too many other options that don't suck (for free). Add to that the DRM aspect which could  make things annoyingly difficult because remember, we are emulating. Emulating people aren't exactly....law abiding citizens (regardless of how you try to spin it). People will hack it, because DRM is pointless in the long run, and more than likely prevent many sales.

 

Now, with all the negative attitude out of the way. I"m looking forward to seeing if these companies actually come through and see how they go about it, I'm just not holding my breath as there've been WAY too many letdowns in the PC world in the last few years.

[chepas]

Could be good for some people, personally I can't stand Zen pinball. Their games do look good and have no doubt they would look very nice in a cabinet layout but 80% of them are way too easy - assisted shots.

[s1500]

No idea why Zen focuses on Win 8 appstore, but I suspect as an early adopter (they were even installed with the win8 beta), they probably got a juicy cut in the appstore percentage via a timed exclusive.  Probably a bad decision but I do think I read they plan a standard PC version sometime this year so here's hopeing we can all enjoy these great programs on whatever platform we choose.

 

As much as I would love to stick with XP forever, time has to march on for OS support. Thus, Windows 8. I have Win8 on my just-bought laptop, and no, it's not suitable for laptops & desktops. It's for Tablets. 

 

For VP, is it going to play nice with Windows 8? Not with special tweaking, hacks, additional DLL files, etc, but official Win8 support? I don't want it to be the point where in order to play VP, you have to boot it up in a virtual machine. 

[Zablon]

MS is pushing that app store hard. It will be interesting to see if people revolt. Windows 8 isn't bad, but it isn't really a step up either. They are trying to force people into a certain market scheme, and most people with tech experience are going to rebel, while the average user is going to go along with it.  I would like to say this is an exciting time for consumers, but it really isn't. There's going to be a lot of wasted money in short term "options" until the next big thing hits.

[ringorian]

Could be good for some people, personally I can't stand Zen pinball. Their games do look good and have no doubt they would look very nice in a cabinet layout but 80% of them are way too easy - assisted shots.

Change the slope and the ball savers, then its much harder ..
Works in Pinball FX 2 on win 8, dont know about zen pinball

[nebrunner]

Game companies can't really be trusted these days. They promise the moon and really only develop for the greatest common denominator and are bound by unrealistic timelines and budgets. We are asking for something that there are likely less than a 1000 sales for. Consoles are what are being developed for, and PC is usually an afterthought.  That's quite a bit of dev time for very little payback even if they do charge a premium for it. Even if they do that, what if the tables suck or are buggy? A few people buy them, spread the word and the rest skip it, then they've really lost out. I know "I AM" not going to just put money out there just because they release it. I have too many other options that don't suck (for free). Add to that the DRM aspect which could  make things annoyingly difficult because remember, we are emulating. Emulating people aren't exactly....law abiding citizens (regardless of how you try to spin it). People will hack it, because DRM is pointless in the long run, and more than likely prevent many sales.

 

Now, with all the negative attitude out of the way. I"m looking forward to seeing if these companies actually come through and see how they go about it, I'm just not holding my breath as there've been WAY too many letdowns in the PC world in the last few years.

 

 

I pre-ordered Aliens Colonial Marines for the PC based on an interview with Randy Pitchford that I read a couple months ago

[hotdp]

I pre-ordered Aliens Colonial Marines for the PC based on an interview with Randy Pitchford that I read a couple months ago

 

From wiki:

Aliens: Colonial Marines has received largely negative reviews. Aggregating review websites GameRankings and Metacritic gave the Xbox 360 version 53.18% and 49/100,[41][44] the PlayStation 3 version 43.00% and 44/100[42][45] and the PC version 38.89% and 43/100

 

Why buy that? :-S

[Zablon]

at risk of going way off topic - the demo that was showed to people prior was amazing, the finished product was something completely different. Many people were fooled and pretty outraged by it. I foresee possibly the first round of lawsuits for a bait and switch tactic to come out of this. Even Amazon is giving refunds on digital downloads of it (which rarely happens on games). I personally am a HUGE aliens fanatic and was looking forward to this (but I never preorder, because there is no incentive to) and I have still yet to get it because of how dismal the reaction has been.

 

Back on topic: looking forward to see what comes out of this.

Edited by Zablon, 20 February 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[Gamester]

It's unfortunate that the community has apparently been let down so many times that so many here are completely cynical about this whole idea.  One thing's for sure, the only way to fail is to stop trying.  If everyone has given up on the possibility that one of these developers will ever deliver this, then you can be sure it will never happen.  The relationship between the development houses and the community has to be nurtured to some degree.  We can't just stand back and wait for something to happen.  I intend to pursue this with Zen until they tell me they have no plans to pursue it any further.  I would do the same with Farsight, but have not had any interaction with them thus far.  I certainly hope the rest of the community is willing to step in and help these guys implement the features if they ask for it.

 

I realize that many assert that the install base of cabinets is not high enough to justify the development expense for adding cabinet-friendly features, and while that could be true, I think it can work both ways...software can drive demand for hardware.  How many people have totally upgraded their computers or purchased a new game console because of a game they REALLY wanted to play?  I know I have!  Well, I think if people see these awesome pinball games running on a full fledged cabinet, I think many of them will be blown away by it, and it will spur some additional interest in cabinet building (or cab purchases from great vendors like Noah).

 

Anyway, all this to say, I'm not giving up hope so easily.  If I get let down, I get let down...but it won't be for lack of trying...

 

Some of my hopes for this rest on the idea that maybe some of these guys are simply big enough pinball geeks that they want to see this happen for the same reasons we do, not just because it makes sense to bean counters.

 

I guess we'll see what happens...

[s1500]

There's a chicken & egg thing here.

 

1. People won't buy(or build themselves) a big 'ol pinball cab if there's no good software support for it.

2. People won't make/support software for pincabs if there's no good install base for pincabs. This is speaking on a commercial perspective. 

 

My idea? Take 2 monitors & a small PC and put hinges to make a tiny cab. Fold it up for EZ storage, and lay it on a table, flip up the 2nd monitor: instant pinball. You'll be the hit of Timmy's 9th birthday party. 

[settingsons]

Even if the cab owners are in the low numbers, think how good it would be for them at a gaming show to have a full blown cabinet on there exhibition stand. It will draw in the crowds and people will be drawn to try the product.

Didn't Konami do exactly that with Frogger pinball last year. They have a line of Paul's adapted VirtuaPin cabs playing an adapted version of their game (incidently programmed by the Pro-Pinball Silverball guys).

Cab support starts with just portrait mode. Most people can rotate a wall or stand mounted monitor. Add-ons could be priced highly. 150-200 euros for everything. Most cab builders spend much more than that on a build. 1000 sales x 200 = 200,000 euros.